Miami Beach Beardies Need Help

[BeachBeardie]

Help the Miami Beach Beardies!

Situation= Two dragons suffering from malnutrition. They do not eat on their own. Female shows signs of Metabolic Bone Disease and does not have the energy to eat on her own. Male shows complete loss of appetite and does not eat at all and is currently being force fed.

Tank Size= 20 Gallon

Substrate= Paper Towel

Dragon Size (Head to tail tip)= Male 10 inches, Female 12 inches

Kind of UVB light= Previously Zilla Desert Series now on Reptisun 10.0 as of 5 days ago since pet store visit.

Temps ins tank= Basking 90-100, Cool Spot 80-90

Normal dragon Feed= Previously feed only small mealworms & small crickets , the pet store owner told us to do the following regiment since their visit:

Male dragon given 1CC of calcium with water in the morning and provided veggies on platter but not force fed. Giving him appetite supplement and introduce crickets every two 2 to 3 days.

Female dragon given 1CC of calcium with water daily in the morning and due to weakness hand feeding till she begins to strengthen.

Had dragon for= 5 months


The Rundown:

The male is active but refuses to eat anything. We have been force feeding worms for about two months and he is now starving due to what the pet store guy told us to do. We have not seen change in appetite and it is day five of the routine stated above.

The female is weak, lethargic, and losing weight in the legs she does not have the energy to stand much less go after food. We have not seen change in appearance since the last five days.

We have had them since they were 3 to 4 weeks old but lately we have come across these problems within the last two months.

We are new owners and need some guidance. Please help.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Are they housed together? If so, I would recommend that they be separated so that they can have their own room. Though he is not old enough to breed but they will once they reach maturity. They are both not healthy enough to breed.
What type of calcium are you using currently, powdered or liquid?
How close is the Reptisun 10 tube bulb to them & is there any plastic or screen in between the light & your dragons?
Do you have any pictures of them? What do you measure the temperatures with, a digital probe or a temp gun?
I would get some baby food such as chicken or turkey, along with some squash baby food daily. Go slowly so they don't choke, & use a plastic dropper or plastic syringe to feed them. You can try dropping the food onto the end of the nose to see if they will start licking the food like that to decrease the stress of having to force the mouth open.
Are they holding their hydration well?
Please let us know how they are both doing.

Tracie

 

[BeachBeardie]

Thanks Tracie for the quick response we really appreciate it. We feel people like you are the only ones we can trust. Petco doesn't know Bearded Dragons and have been giving us bad information.

Here are the answers to your questions:

They are housed together and we have no intention to breed. It just so happened that when we bought them we later found out they were male and female.

We are using Flukers Calcium Powder.

Their is a black mesh screen between the Reptisun Bulb and the beardies.
-(Are we to eliminate the screen all together? Being that it is a fluorescent tube how do we fix it above their tank?)

Heres what they look like (poor babies):
The Male

The Female

Here is what their Tank looks like:

As you can see we measure the temps with a temperature dial the one that came with the Zilla Bearded Dragon 20 gal Tank Kit.

The male is holding his hydration better than the female but both of them have very runny stools.

Once again thank you for your help Tracie.

 

[BeachBeardie]

Heres what their stool looks like. It is solid and but since we have been giving a CC of calcium and water I am not sure if this is runny or normal. I also do not know if the coloration is normal either.

The Male Sample

The Female Sample

I'm gonna go clean the tank and buy some baby food. Thanks a million.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, they will have to be separated eventually because they will breed, it is just inevitable.
They will begin hitting maturity at 6 months, so you will have to consider how to house them when you have some time.
The screen top will filter out about 30% of the UVB unfortunately. You could cut a hole in the screen if you wanted to or you could mount the light fixture underneath of the screen with wires which then you wouldn't have to cut the screen.
Overall, they don't look too bad. I would really focus on hydration status right now as they are most likely stressed from being moved to a new home as well. That alone will cause runnier stools, but not necessarily higher coccidia counts.
What type of calcium are you using, powder or liquid? The amount is very important as you don't want to give too much. Are you just using a pinch of powder mixed in with water, or did you buy a specific liquid calcium already dosed, etc?
They both look good.
Keep us posted on them.

Tracie

 

[BeachBeardie]

We have already set on moving them in the near future (waiting on a friend to lend us some supplies). We have been leaving the cage open a crack so that the UVB is free from the screen.

We have seen a dramatic improvement with the weak female. She is till very wobbly but she is going after food and acting her old self again. The male has always been active but I feel like his growth is being stunted and he still has to be forced fed; he doesn't make any initiative to eat.

As for hydration we have been misting them regularly and every week we give them a warm tub bath. They have been living with us for 5 months now so stressed from being moved shouldn't be so apparent by now.

Currently we are using the powdered calcium by mixing in a pinch with the baby food that we feed with the syringe. We are looking into the liquid calcium now.

Some questions include:

How do we transition them back to veggies and crickets?
How do I stimulate appetite in the male since hes already on an appetite supplement?
How can we get leg strength back in the female?


Thank you soo much for your help Tracie.

 

[BeachBeardie]

I was reading about Brumation I think the male seems a little young for that though? However, he shows all the signs by refusing to open his mouth unless forced and isn't stimulated by nothing not crickets, worms, or lettuce.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It sounds like the female is starting to do a little better now, that is great news! The UVB is helping & hopefully her appetite will continue to be good right now. Her balance should also improve too once her nutritional status has leveled out.
The male is likely much worse off than the female so it will take him a little longer to improve & stabliize than the female.

You can try water therapy to help improve the strength in them both. You will need to make it deep enough to where their feet can kind of touch but enough to where they can swim.
Appetite stimulants such as bee pollen or brewer's yeast are helpful. You can find those products easily at most health food stores or in the pharmacy & or supplement areas in drug stores.
Getting them back onto solid food will be challenging. Most of the time, they will start eating on their own once their strength gets back to normal. When they are in a weakened state, the lack the energy to really go after their food.

Keep up the great work on both of them & let us know how they are both doing.

Tracie

 

[BeachBeardie]

Its been going well with the baby food and the UVB light exposure. The female is even going after crickets! She struggles though and is still shaky and lethargic but is stabilizing. However she still spends most of her time hiding from the light and we find ourselves having to get her out of hiding. Athough at first glance she looks worse off than the male since she lack alertness and rarely stands upright.

The strange thing about the male is he looks great always upright, alert, and energetic. The problem is he does not want to open his mouth for nothing. We syringe him with Nature Zone Appetite Plus+ Concentrated Vitamin Solution from time to time and it does nothing. He has no interest in crickets and barely eats the baby food if not forced. I fear his growth will be stunted.


I will start water therapy this week on both and I will keep you posted (next time with pictures too).

Question:

For the male the bee pollen or brewer's yeast should that be mixed in with the baby food and syringed as well? Should I also do this for the female?

Always a pleasure Tracie your the best.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, that is good they both seem to be stabilizing some. Wow so your female is going after her crickets now, even if she is still a little shaky.
The male sounds very stubborn though!
Yes, you can put the bee pollen & brewer's yeast in with the baby food mixture. Maybe he will eventually open his mouth. Does he not like the taste of the baby food then?
That is odd she wants to hide from the light, I wonder why that is. Your basking light, is it really a bright white light then?
The water therapy should really help out a lot with their strength & conditioning.

I hope that they are both recovering well & continue to. Please keep us posted on them both!

Tracie

 

[BeachBeardie]

Day one of Beardie Swim Team.

The boy started puffing the inside of his chest :shock: but he swims like a champ .

The girl on the other hand just floats but doesn't swim only seldom does she make an effort. :?

The boy eats the baby food. He likes it but he barely opens his mouth and it takes forever to feed him. Lots of patience. On our way to the grocery to buy some bee pollen & brewer's yeast. I'll let you know how that goes.

As far as the light situation I have seen that the last few days they huddle in the shade. The girl is always in the shade the boy runs around all over the place. It is a bright light; but isn't it suppose to be? The screen blocks some of it. Heres a pic of them huddled and of our viv ( I think thats what they pros call it).

The viv?

The babies all huddled:

 

[BeachBeardie]

I gave the male some bee pollen today with baby food and a few minutes later he instantly was licking everything in the tank :shock: threw a couple small mealworms in there and he ate them.

Later I tried crickets and he became spaced out again.

The girl is still a little weak but shes looking at them like she wants to eat them.


I'll try water exercise this week for both and see if they get a little stronger.

Thanks again Tracie.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It sounds encouraging for both of them. At least you were able to get some food into them. Hopefully the brewer's yeast & bee pollen will help out a lot. I know it can take awhile to feed them that way but they should start eating on their own soon enough.
Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to double check the temps? I didn't see one in there, just the stick on type of thermometer in the picture so I thought I would ask. Maybe it is too hot?
The water therapy is usually pretty effective. Maybe the female will do more than just float! LOL

Great job with both of them. I think that they are going to be fine, but it is just going to take some time.


Tracie