Metal Halide lighting

[MODragons]

Hello, maybe this post was better suited for the "Newbie" informational lighting thread. I'm a past saltwater reef hobbyist and I have these metal halide lights with lumenarc reflectors I have up for sale.....

Can these be used in a vivarium ? I mean I assume so, just depends on the size of the tank. I used both in a 120 gallon aquarium, it required these 250W bulbs to get good PAR values near the bottom in order to grow corals.

I would assume that temperature is the most important factor, what lights used to maintain that temperature would be secondary I guess. I'm thinking that for a basking light in a 40 to 80 gallon tank these would be overkill, could they be used in a much larger open air setup like those used for chameleons ? Does anyone see any use at all for some lights like these regarding reptiles ? Maybe some sort of large playpen or something....

As an aside...does K-value affect Bearded Dragons in any sort of way ? For corals it did, these were 14K which was a nice white light, I think the sun is 6-8K which is more yellow and would cause good growth but mute the colors, while 20K being almost all blue would really make the colors on corals pop.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[BadCon]

Remember in aquarium setups, you are battling the water...hence why the aquarium crowd uses some rather extreme lighting setups (by reptile standards anyways) to penetrate the water. I would not feel comfortable housing any reptile under lighting that intense...unless of course their natural habitat made color temperatures above 6500k a necessity. Also, reptiles in a natural setting tend to avoid sunlight when it reaches its most extreme...again, a color temperature of 20,000 kelvin is pretty extreme. Snow covered mountain tops have color temps around 8000k...
With regard to bearded dragons, I'm not sure how such a color temp would affect their vision. Nor am I sure what the specific output of those bulbs are. Without owning a complete set of UV meters to test the bulbs for safety, I'd take a pass.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I am in agreement that the Kelvin readings for aquarium lightings such as the ones pictured are far too high for simulating high noon in a desert environment. If you had these for coral, the Kelvin is probably over 10,000.

In addition...If those bulbs were good for coral then they are probably actinic bulbs and would emit a blue hue which would fool your dragon into thinking it is sunset outside, and not full noon. I would imagine their behavior would be affected and they would be quite lethargic.

EDIT - I see the title of the post refers to them as Halide - they just look so blue, maybe you have actinic in there too or just the halide. Either way they are both not meant for reptiles. From what I remember from having an aquarium years ago, the halide gets super duper hot.

 

[MODragons]

Thanks for the replies! One of the pictures show a dual T5 setup, those aren't the MH fixtures/bulbs I was inquiring about, but you're right they were super actinic and blue + bulbs. I would add I do have 10K bulbs and over time their Kelvin rating is supposedly reduced, the ones in the photograph are 14K which I wholeheartedly agree would be too white.

I ran across this topic which had this quote....

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=112482

The UVB obtained from any good fluorescent lamp (tube or compact) is very weak compared to sunlight. At a reasonable basking distance, eg. 25 - 30cm (10" - 12") it rarely exceeds UV Index 1.0 with a brand new lamp. With many 5% tubes it does not even reach UV Index 0.4 - 0.5.
These levels are typical of the daytime UVB outdoors in the SHADE. This is very different from a UV Index of maybe 3.0 - 5.0 in full early morning sunlight anywhere in the world where reptiles are basking at the beginning of the day. To provide levels as high as that, you need a high quality mercury vapour lamp or metal halide over the basking area.

Am I to understand that Metal Halide bulbs provide the necessary UVB that a Bearded Dragon needs for a healthy life ? If so, I'm just wondering if I shouldn't use one of these reflectors/fixtures above the tank - like near the ceiling casting a wide beam - to supplement if not fully provide for their UVB needs....I can always get a lower K-rated bulb to offset the "spectrum" issues.

 

[ShannyBeard]

Am I to understand that Metal Halide bulbs provide the necessary UVB that a Bearded Dragon needs for a healthy life ? If so, I'm just wondering if I shouldn't use one of these reflectors/fixtures above the tank - like near the ceiling casting a wide beam - to supplement if not fully provide for their UVB needs....I can always get a lower K-rated bulb to offset the "spectrum" issues.

I wish I was home because I have some really great reptile light information sources that I could cite. I can just tell you the basics on metal halide lights. The concern about metal halide isn't UVB, it's excessive UVA! They produce so much UVA that you would need to put a filter on them, and then you would have the problem with filtering out the UVB. So they would wind up being useless.

Too much UVA causes cellular mutations and ultimately cancer.

 

[MODragons]

Thanks again for the reply....I would be interested in reading anything about lighting, please feel free to PM me or post links if you find the time.


I'm getting out - well I just sold my last tank earlier this week - of the saltwater hobby and have these MHs for sale when it occurred to me that maybe I could use them. The 80 gallon Lizard Lounge will be in my basement, it rarely gets over the mid 70s in there and I suspect will drop into the 60s at night - never checked really. MHs cost alot to run, trust me they wouldn't be my first choice for any sort of reptile based just on cost to run alone. However, I was thinking that maybe they would be worth a few dollars to run in the mornings for 3-4 hours to warm things up and cast some UVB - supplemented by Reptisun 10 after the MHs shut off. This was prior to your posting of the UVA issues whcih I had no idea about.

Thank goodness for BD.org where a newbie like myself can go mining for info and experience!