metabolic bone disease help!!

[adammarshall1992]

Okay, I have about a 9 month old bearded dragon. His name is Mortici and I've been noticing some weird things with him lately. His keeps his limbs in all types of weird positions while he lays around, almost like he's too lazy to straighten them out. He will lay with his paws bent inward and laying on his legs. At first I just thought "wow he's really lazy" but I started watching him closer and I don't think this is the case anymore. When he walks it's almost as if his legs are seizing up on him. It looks difficult for him to move around slowly but he can run normally without them seizing up or twitching. Sometimes he walks around slowly and they don't do it at all. So I really don't know what to make of this. I am worried he has MBD.

Tank wise he is in a pretty standard size tank for a baby beardie. I have a 100 watt basking light bulb, it's a regular household light bulb. I have a 75 watt red light and I am not sure of the wattage of my fluorescent tube light but I think it's around 50-60 watts. He has a carpet substrate that is made for reptiles. I don't keep anything small and loose hanging around in the tank.

I feed him about 50 crickets throughout the week. The crickets are dusted with calcium powder every time I give them to him. I also feed the crickets a variety of greens along with cricket water from the pet store. I also give him veggies every other day. He won't eat them everyday. I give him about 7 mealworms every other day also. He sometimes won't eat everyday when he's shedding, so they do have times I can't get him to eat for about 3 days at a time. When he gets hungry he eats and it works for him I guess. Every so often I give him baby food, grapes, bananas or any other treat I have around the house that he loves. I am worried that on the days when he won't eat and he isn't getting calcium that it is causing some issues. Btw I also dust his veggies on days that he won't eat worms or crickets. I also dust the worms. I also give him Fluker's Repta Boost for vitamins and to maintain his weight when he won't eat. He will always drink a nice syringe of this stuff!

I also want to note that he for the most part likes to stay on the cooler side of the tank. The temp doesn't vary that great from the warmer side, it's when you get up on his log towards his basking light that the temps really change so I didn't pay much attention to it. He does poop regularly and doesn't have issues there. I can't think of anything else that might be important. I know the issue can be lighting or not enough calcium. I am just not sure which it could be, if anyone can shed some light on my situation I would greatly appreciate it!! If necessary I can post pictures of his tank and the different vitamins and supplements I give him to help.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. First off no red light. To them it is to dark. You need a bright bulb by the uvb bulb. Also what kind of uvb are you using? You need to get a Reptisun Tube 10.0 or Arcadia 12%. And don't feed meal worms they cause impaction and no nutritional value. Also how often do you dust his food? As for a brighter bulb yuo can use a regular white bright bulb. How do you take the temps? Yes it does sound like start of mbd. Hopefully you caught it in time and it won't get worse with the proper care.

 

[adammarshall1992]

I use the red light to keep the cool side at the right temperature along with a regular 100 watt household lightbulb for the warm side/basking light. For the uvb rays I have just a regular fluorescent tube light. As for the meal worms they haven't caused me any problems and he loves them as a snack. I dust his food about 4 times a week and I have 2 temp gauges at both ends of the tank. One for the cool side and one for the warm side. Both sides stay perfectly within the range of what a bearded dragon likes and needs.

I have three lights at the top of his tank. If I shouldn't use the red one, then which one should I use for the cool side? And should I change out the household bulb for a different one? The fluorescent tube light is a small light I picked up at Wal-Mart. It almost looks like the lights in a classroom or hospital hallway but much much smaller. That's the best way I can describe it .

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Sorry but the light from Wal-Mart is not the right kind as I and other people only use a Reptisun Tube or Arcadia 12%. You need to read the care sheet at the top of this blog it will give you awesome information as what you need to do to have a happy healthy baby. I'm sorry but your set up and what you are feeding obviously are not right otherwise he would not be having the calcium problems. You need a certain uvb so he can make calcium thats why the Wal-Mart bulb does not work. Thats why its also important to dust his food. Also if you want the rigth uvb usually you need to go to petmountain.com to order it and beautifuldragons.org for what to feed.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

What type of temperature gauges are you using, a digital probe or a temp gun? What are the temperatures at now? He needs a basking temperature of 95-110 range with a cooler end of around 78-82.
What is the size of tank, a 40 gallon or larger? He will need at least a 40+ gallon for his age, so when he finishes growing he will have enough turn around space.
The red light is not really bright enough for him & is not conducive to higher activity levels.
As suggested, the better choices for UVB would be either the Reptisun 10 tube bulb, or the Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb. You can get the Reptisun 10 tube bulb at reptilesupply.com
The Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb you can get from lightyourreptiles.com
The Repta boost may help with vitamins & hydration right now. Is he eating very much?
Since he does not have any UVB source, he hasn't been able to absorb his calcium or vitamins properly. Low calcium is what causes muscular twitches & seizures such as what he is experiencing.
The mealworms are "ok" on occasion but they are really low in nutrition so we usually recommend phoenix worms, silkworms, or hornworms. If he is 16 inches, he can have some superworms, too. Crickets & or roaches are great staples, too.
Do you have any pictures of him?

Tracie

 

[MichaelG]

It sounds like he has never had UVB on him since the fluorescent you are using is not a UVB bulb, it's a regular bulb from Walmart. You can keep the fixture that you have the fluorescent bulb in, but you need to purchase a ReptiSun 10.0 tube light that is large enough to cover at least 3/4 of the tank, then mount it INSIDE the tank so it is 6-8 inches away from the dragon's basking spot.

Even though he has had calcium, he hasn't been able to metabolize the calcium, so it's very likely that he has MBD as you suspected.

As for the other lights, you can keep the white household bulb you are using for heat and just toss the red one. They don't usually need any extra heat on the cool side as long as it stays about 70 degrees at the lowest. They also don't need any heat at night unless your ambient temps are lower than 65. If your temps are that low, then get a ceramic heat emitter, which only puts off heat and no light. Red lights really irritate dragons' eyes and upsets their day/night cycle since there is a dim light on all the time rather than full darkness at night and bright white light during the day.

 

[adammarshall1992]

I will post pictures for y'all.

I have been noticing he keeps his eyes closed a lot. So if the red light irritates that could be why. I will get rid of it. I am getting a new fluorescent bulb this weekend. I will have to go to the pet store and get it. The only thing the pet store offers is crickets and meal worms. I am not able to order anything from the internet so I don't have a way to get the phoenix worms or the other ones also.

I feed him about 7-10 small crickets everyday. I give him spring mix. They have all kinds of different greens in that, I am not sure what they are called tho. If you have ever gotten the spring mix salad from Wal-Mart then you know what I am talking about. I give him bell pepper occasionally but he doesn't always eat it. I've tried squash but he doesn't always eat that either. In a day I will give him salad, crickets, and meal worms. I also spray him everyday with water.

I have a starter tank for bearded dragons that I got from the pet store. Right now at his age he has more than enough room to move around and when he gets older I am going to upgrade his tank to a larger one. I use a digital thermometer on both sides of the tank. I don't have a temp gun. The cool side stays about 80 degrees and the warm side is about 98. The basking stop at the top of his log is about 110.

 

[adammarshall1992]

Here are the pictures

http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/adammarshall1992/story/49867

 

[JulieGeek]

First off, good pictures. That helps. With a little rearrangement and a couple of purchase, you'll be in good shape.

1) Folks have already told you that you can lose the red light. Just remove it completely. You don't need a light on the cool side. It will help the cool side be cooler and stop bothering your dragon's eyes. In a normal house, your cool side doesn't need any additional warmth.

2) Move both the other white lights to one end of the tank so you have a toasty basking spot. The household bulbs are fine for warmth. If you're running out of space, consider using clip-on desk lamps. They're cheap and flexible.

3) Most importantly, your dragon needs UVB light so he can process all the calcium you're giving him (which is very good, by the way). It sounds like you're in the US, so you'll be wanting a Reptisun 10.0 tube (not the compact tube or coil), probably in the 18" length, and an 18" el cheapo fluorescent fixture from WalMart (Home Depot, etc.) I use a wire hanger to hang the fixture inside the tank. (If you want specific instructions, PM me...)

Don't worry about taking the top off your tank. Based on how your little guy is feeling right now, he's not going anywhere.

Until you get your UVB fixture up and running, take your little guy outside for some natural UVB. Put him in container (not a glass tank--it'll get too hot) with a washcloth and go soak up some rays for 30 minutes or so.

As others have pointed out, it looks like you've caught it early. You can fix this.

Loiosh & Princess' Mom

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Excellent pictures. How is he doing today?
Yes, the red can irritate the eyes so a lot of times they will just close the eyes.
How is his appetite doing today?
The digital thermometer, does that stick on the side of the tank? Just to double check the temperatures, I would try to get a digital probe or a temp gun to make sure the temps are good for him.
Keep trying with the greens & eventually he will eat them. As long as he is eating his crickets & not losing weight, he will be able to improve slowly for you.

Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

 

[adammarshall1992]

Thank you for the great advice!

I have removed the red light today. He slept ALL day today, I just had a basking light on him and he slept literally all day. I couldn't get him to eat or anything. I haven't been able to get the new fluorescent bulb yet. I have to wait one more day. Until then I will take him outside for some all natural uvb.

I am not sure if the lack of uvb is causing him to be so sluggish and sleepy all the time, can anyone enlighten me please?

 

[destiny1998]

yes that can cause him to be that way. Also you should be feeding him 2x a day for as much as he'll eat in 15mins. 10 small crickets a day is not enough. He could easily be eating 50 a day and more. Hope he gets better.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is Mortici doing? He slept all day?
At 9 months he could be also trying to brumate as well.
I wouldn't let him fully go down though since he is having calcium issues right now.
Not having UVB per say wont leave them sleepy but over time, it will leave them lethargic if they develop the bone issues from lack of calcium absorption.
See how he does when you take him outside in the sunlight. That may help to perk him up a little bit.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[adammarshall1992]

I can't get him to eat more than 10 a day. He will only eat that many. Plus I give him salad and other things which he won't always eat.

I took him outside for some sunlight until I can get a proper uvb bulb and he became very very aggressive. I tried putting a leash on him and he puffed up, hissed, and gapped at me. He wasn't happy at all about the leash. He managed to get out of the leash anyway so I had to find a box to put him in. While he was outside he was very alert and watching EVERYTHING. I went to pick him up and again he hissed and threatened to bite me. I'm sure he was just very scared of all the noises outside and being in a new place. He also brightened up a lot. I will post some pictures of him outside. After that I haven't taken him back outside and I am working on getting a temporary enclosure built for him outside. I will let him bask in the sunlight for an hour or two everyday. I will sit and watch him and I will not leave him outside all the time.

Since I have removed the red light I have noticed the little eye crusts that have been on one of his eyes has completely gone now. Red light must've been causing that. He still doesn't go under his basking light very often. I am wondering if I should get a lower wattage. Other than that he is pretty much the same. He sleeps a lot and will wake up to eat when I throw him some crickets. Then he's off to sleep again.

 

[adammarshall1992]

Pictures of mort outside

http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/adammarshall1992/media/f8a4cc5e-aa4c-44ba-bd07-1eec1218ca7c_zps2d8295d3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0