**Mega Ray Issues** / Megaray RECALL

[acwood04]

Solarglo, my bad. I PMed Frances asking her about it and she said that most the ones she tested were good. No low wavelength and the UVB output was good. She said there were some instances where the UVB output was a little less. I figured a little less UVB is better than way too much. I am just weary to put a new one in there so soon. I'll wait and see how she is tomorrow. Is this condition fatal for beardies? What exactly is going on with their eyes and the light? and what are the effects of it if left untreated?

 

[MissT]

How were you washing the eye with saline....just letting it gently run over?
I cannot get her to drink. I have been using a syringe and putting drops on her snout. She could care less. Does anyone have thoughts on this. I know from experience it would be dangerous to attempt to force it. I'm almost tempted to try subq but I don't have any sterile fluids.

I'm very confused about baths...everyone seems to have a differing opionion. No...you will overhydrate...do it only once a week. Don't cause stress. OR bath more...sigh....I'm not sure what is the best answer here.

I was just letting the saline run across her eye lids. As Vicky said it isnt totally necessary but I feel that it helped to get rid of any stickiness/crustiness in the eyes so that was not causing further irritation to her. The saline rinses never really seemed to bother either of them too much. You can also gently wipe the eyes with a q-tip in saline but I found rinsing easier and less stress for Abu and Phoebe.

You wont over hydrate with baths. Even vets will recommend more than 1 bath per week!!! Give her daily baths. As Vicky already mentioned, add some pedialyte to the bath.

Most importantly, be patient. She wont heal overnight!

 

[lilacdragon]

Hi, everyone.

I'll wait and see how she is tomorrow. Is this condition fatal for beardies? What exactly is going on with their eyes and the light? and what are the effects of it if left untreated?

I wrote a bit more about this in a reply to Figpucker the other day, but it was just before the threads merged so it may have got a bit buried beneath other posts. Here's the link:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=121986&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=195#p976798
That post also gives a link to a very detailed description and loads of info about this type of eye problem, on UV Guide UK. Please take a look...

But to answer your concerns... No, it isn't fatal. Nor does it permanently blind the beardie. The UVB does not reach the internal parts of the eye, so the light-sensitive retina at the back of the eye is not damaged.
It is just very painful opening the eyes - like having sand in them - so they sit with their eyes shut tight. And so they can't see.
Sometimes the inside of the eyelids - the conjunctiva - are also damaged, because this soft skin is delicate. Like a mild burn. If this happens the eyelids swell, and I think this accounts for descriptions of "white" lower eyelids. (The lower eyelid is thin and very slightly translucent normally, too - so when closed you can sometimes see a dark shadow through it (sort of bluish) - what you are seeing is the pupil of the eye, through the lid. It's quite normal but it does look odd if you've never noticed it before.)

Unless other things happen, they will recover best with no treatment at all, once the too-short-wavelength and/or excessive UVB is removed. To be honest I don't think bathing the eyes does much good unless there's a stickiness there which needs gentle removing, as MissT says. Firstly, you should use warm water that's been sterilised earlier, by boiling, and to which has been added one teaspoonful of table salt per pint, so that it is isotonic. Using ordinary water or anything else could introduce bacteria or irritate the eye worse. And second, nothing will get through closed eyelids.. and it would be very bad to try to force open his eyes or anything like that. So it's really just rinsing the outside of the eye. If the eyes are open, be very very careful not to touch the eye itself with whatever you use to bathe the eyes. You could easily make things much worse. Personally I would leave well alone, and if the eyes look bad, take him to a vet and you'll be given a prescription ointment or drops, if it's thought necessary.

The other things that could happen (rarely) would be:
1. An infection (bacterial or fungal) invades the damaged area of cornea or the sensitive skin of the eyelids. You'd see a sticky or crusty discharge and swelling. An infected eye must be seen by a vet.
2. The beardie is so shocked and traumatised by the pain that he becomes unable to do anything, he crawls into a corner and becomes dehydrated and his whole body seems to shut down; if there is any other ongoing problem or weakness, they can die. I've only heard of a couple of cases of this in three years, though, thank goodness. They were either very small babies or very elderly dragons.
3. The beardie, because he sits motionless with his eyes closed, doesn't thermoregulate properly and is either overheated (sometimes by a well-meaning "mom" who plonks him under the heat lamp all the time) or gets too cold, hiding in a shelter. But fortunately, once the light is removed they often do open their eyes quite soon - enough to move around and thermoregulate again. The problem comes when the owners don't realise that it's the lamp that's causing the eye-closing. The longer the lamp stays on, the longer the little guy keeps his eyes firmly closed, and can't see to do anything, eat or drink.

If you have had a lamp causing this problem; I don't recommend putting it back on again but at a greater distance. If as I suspect, it's the wavelength of light that's the problem, rather than just "too much", then your beardie is still getting the wrong type of UVB - just less of it. Not a very good idea.

All the best
Frances

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

acwood... I use the Exo Terra Solar Glo on one of my beardies and they are decent bulbs. Like the others mentioned though... give your beardie a few more days for the eyes to heal before putting the mvb in.

rclay... If your beardie is keeping one or both eyes closed, then yes, you need to turn your megaray off and contact John at Reptileuv. If it was purchased in December it is more than likely defective.

Someone mentioned prying a beardies mouth open to give oral fluids. I personally don't think that is a good idea. The beardie is already stressed enough as it is, why add more stress. I have a beardie that I orally hydrate quite often. When she is being stubborn I syringe the water into the slight opening they have at the back corner of their mouth. Yes, it may take a few tries, but eventually they will start to swallow and open their mouth to lick. This is when you can start syringing the fluid into the front of their mouth. Sometimes it takes a while, but you must be patient and persistent. I am certainly not trying to bash anyone's ideas. I just don't believe in adding extra stress to a beardie that is not feeling well and stressed already.
I have also heard, if all else fails, people "gently" slipping the edge of a credit card into the opeing of a beardies mouth to get them to open up. I find this to be better than actually gripping the beardies mouth and prying it open.

 

[figpucker]

Frances,

This is what is happening here.

"The beardie is so shocked and traumatised by the pain that he becomes unable to do anything, he crawls into a corner and becomes dehydrated and his whole body seems to shut down; if there is any other ongoing problem or weakness, they can die. I've only heard of a couple of cases of this in three years, though, thank goodness. They were either very small babies or very elderly dragons."

I'm at a total loss here. I don't know how she is still alive this morning. I could not give her water and she just lays still in my arms in the bath.
I told Steve that years ago when I was in practice we would put an animal in the freezer to end the misery. This is just heartbreaking.

I asked him about having a necropsy but he is dead set against that as well.

Someone else on another board suggested

"PetSmart & PetCo usually carry a dietary supplement from ESU or Zilla called "JumpStart"

but if I can't get water in her... I doubt I can do this.

I feel like she is dehydrating. I think her skin is getting tacky and she just lays there...yet she is stall breathing.
Can just bathing really get fluids in her or do I need to force it at this point. I don't want to but she is just so miserable.

 

[figpucker]

Ok...I attempted again to bathe Bella.
She briefly opened and I mean very briefly...her eyes
After about minutes of lifeless soaking she had a bowel movement....her first in 3 days.
I guess this is positive.
She then when back to just laying there.
I collected the stool and put it in a baggie. It's a little wet. I hope that is ok. Should I put in the fridge or somewhere special until tomorrow?
How long can she go without eating?

 

[urrout]

Has anybody received an actual notice, email or snail mail, from ReptileUV about these bulbs?

I haven't and neither has a friend who has a 160 watt bulb although she has had no problem with hers. I also talked to a man at the pet store yesterday that had a "sick" dragon and when I mentioned the bulb recall, he called his wife right then to turn the bulb off. If I had not found this site while searching for answers to some feeding questions, I would never have known and next month or whenever my daughter decided to use her Christmas present, her dragon would be at risk for what has been happening to so many dragons. Earlier in this thread there is a post stating that the 60 watt EB was not affected because it didn't produce enough heat like the 100 and 160 watt bulbs. If I had not emailed to confirm this and then posted the response, people reading this thread may still think their 60 watt EB bulbs were safe. I am sure I am not the only one who gave these bulbs as Christmas presents to dragon owners on their list.

ReptileUV has our addresses, phone numbers and emails for everyone who has made recent purchases. Not every dragon owner goes on the net or message boards on a regular basis. I put notices in all 3 of my local pet stores about these bulbs but it shouldn't be up to ReptileUV's customers to get the word out. Prompt emails and replacement bulbs don't help the uninformed from risking their dragons health. There is so much praise for these bulbs on message boards everywhere that people didn't believe it was the bulbs causing their problems at first. How many dragons have suffered because notices were not sent out or worse, WILL suffer?

 

[Metalz]

I have one of two dragons under a mega ray replacement starting Tuesday. His color has lighted up and he eats a LOT more but he is keeping one of his eyes closed more often then not and is backing away from the light (starting today).Under both eyes are dark black (Neku). The other dragon has had a replacement mega ray for three days and is also keeping one eye closed most of the time now (Skitz). They both keep their eyes closed even when they're not basking.

Both lights where shipped almost a week apart from each other. both lights are 100 w SB

i guess ill have to find something different to uses like Exo Terra Solar Glo. I think my viv's are to large for tube (40 Gal Breeder and a 55 Gal)

 

[kevindeeley12]

Don't go with exo-terra bulbs, get a ZooMed Repti-Sun 10.0. Trust me.

 

[lilacdragon]

Hello, Figpucker and Steve.

Ok...I attempted again to bathe Bella.
She briefly opened and I mean very briefly...her eyes
After about minutes of lifeless soaking she had a bowel movement....her first in 3 days.
I guess this is positive.
She then when back to just laying there.
I collected the stool and put it in a baggie. It's a little wet. I hope that is ok. Should I put in the fridge or somewhere special until tomorrow?
How long can she go without eating?

YES this is VERY positive!!
The poop will be normal I bet. You shouldn't need to test it for anything.

When they open the vent to do a bowel movement I believe they take in water through the vent. I haven't read this for a fact with beardies but I know some reptiles do; and it would make sense because they so often poop when in water... so there might well be a good reason for it. If you live in an arid environment and it rains - puddles must be made the most of...

They are very resistant to dehydration if healthy. In the wild, in hot weather, in the middle of summer, they can sit for three weeks on one tree branch, unmoving day or night, not eating or drinking a thing. I have a beautiful article by a herpetologist who followed a wild beardie group in Alice Springs all one summer and described a beardie that did exactly that.
Please hold on to the fact that Bella is still healthy. She is in excellent bodily condition, the photo shows this really well. She just has really painful eyes and has shut herself off as best she can, to avoid the pain.
If she really strongly resists taking fluids by mouth you are right not to force her.

Please don't give up hope and please don't do anything drastic to her. She needs as little stress as possible.
A necropsy would almost certainly find a healthy dragon with just te very top layer of the corneas damaged. But please don't even think about necropsies yet... and please... please don't ever put any reptile in a freezer. I know people used to do this, thinking it was a humane method of euthanasia but in recent years it has been found to be far from humane. If euthanasia is needed please get your vet to use a pentobarbitone injection (massive overdose) as for any other pet. But I'm just certain that euthanasia is NOT NOT NOT something to even contemplate...

With very best wishes and my hopes.
Frances

 

[Icebramz]

I purchased a megaray 100w SB on january 29th, i havent used it yet because i havent got my beardie yet, would it be best to return it and go with a t-rex?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Thank you Frances for your detailed explanation of the eyes, it is much appreciated.
The Solar Glo is a decent bulb with no low wavelength or non terrestrial light. So, they are safe & have good UVB emissions thus far. Frances & others have tested it & have cleared it for use.

Figpucker, they can go without eating for awhile. I would recommend the jumpstart, it is helpful for the appetite. Keep trying with the baths, & the hydration. I have also had success using a swab to help get the mouth open as well, but eventually she may get to the point to where she will start licking on her own when you try to get water & food into her. I hope that she continues to improve. How are her temperatures in the tank going right now? At least she did go to the bathroom, she will improve slowly.
The reason she is dehydrated is due to the light. As stated, they normally do not get dehydrated easily, they are built sturdy.
I totally agree with Frances, do not consider euthanasia right now, she looks healthy! Also, putting them in the freezer is not humane because they take a long time to freeze due to their metabolism so they will suffer. The injection is the best way but in this case I don't feel it is needed, either.

**Icebramz, I would return the light & get a Solar Glo for now, or a Reptisun 10 fluorescent tube bulb. I am not positive about the T-rex. They have the same light manufacturer. I do not know if all of the bulbs from Westron manufacturing are bad or if it is just a small batch. Frances may have something more to say on that as well.

Tracie

 

[Icebramz]

alright so get the 125w solar glo? Also, I'm going to have to pay the shipping to send the megaray back arent I? If i tell him i am just unsure about it due to the eye problems do you think they will pay to ship it back?

 

[acwood04]

So if I put the solar glo in it will not harm my beardie? Also, do all MVB bulbs have a much greener light coming from them? I've noticed this with both the megarays, but the second not as much.

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Icebramz... If you are unsure of your light and call Reptile uv... I would think they will pay the shipping and test it for you. This is what I have done. I also purchased a megaray in January and John gladly paid the shipping back to them to test my bulb.