Measures to help dying Beardie?

[Lexiegurl]

Hi everyone,

I used to be a member on this forum bit couldn't remember my username/email to save my life, so I have created a new one. Everyone here was fantastic when I got my 2 beardies back in 2009 and I really appreciated all the advice I received through my first couple of years of being a new beardie owner!

My 2 beardies are now 13 (brother and sister) and I'm pretty sure my girl is dying and I'm not sure how much to intervene.

I found what felt like a fairly large tumor in her abdomen a few weeks ago + significant weight loss (sunken fat pads and other signs of losing weight). Her weight is likely "normal" by number just feeling how heavy she feels but I'm pretty sure it is due to whatever is in her abdomen.

At the time I really started noticing this, I opted to not take her to the vet as she was still acting relatively normal, eating, drinking, pooping (good poops at that hence why I was confident not an obstruction/impaction along with the fact what I felt in her abdomen had defined edges and was movable like a tumor). She showed no signs of pain as far as no stress marks, black beard, lethargic, etc.

I had no intention of putting her through treatment anyway at her age knowing she wouldn't survive chemo or surgery or anything aggressive at 13, so my plan was to keep a close eye on her and take her to the vet as soon as she showed signs of being uncomfortable or in pain. She is established with a vet and had a clean check up in October 2021.

Well Friday night something happened and I don't know what. She went from looking perfectly fine to eyes closed and what appeared to be gasping under her heat light. I pulled her out and she was HOT. Like way hotter than I have ever felt her or her brother be. Nothing has changed with their tank set up or ambient temp in years and she was laying on the tile on the bottom so I'm not sure how she got as hot as she did. She was also extremely pale, which wasn't surprising considering how hot she was.

I managed to get her to cool off slowly at room temp, she stopped what looked like gasping, and was breathing easier although still fairly limp and eyes closed. I put her back in her tank after a few hours and prepared for the worst overnight.

To my surprise yesterday morning she was holding her head up, eyes opened, looking around, improved color, although she hadn't moved from her spot. I was able to get some water in her yesterday and some watermelon juice mixed with water and that seemed to help slightly to where she again was holding her head up, opening her eyes, looking around, although still not moving otherwise.

Same thing so far today... she had her head up, eyes open, looking around this morning (and even as I write this she is looking at me). She still hasn't attempted to move otherwise though. She has feeling in her feet and legs and can move them some when I pinched her toes a bit to see if she had feeling and I know she can see and hear based on how she has reacted to me moving around/talking to her.

She is just very lethargic and tired though. She is breathing easy and no signs of struggling to breathe or in pain (color is so-so but more pale than dark, no black beard, no stress marks). She is on a blanket on the cooler side of her tank so she doesn't overheat again... it is 78 in the room she is in, so I'm not worried about her getting too cool.

I did manage to get some sweet potato and banana baby food in her along with a little water about 2 hours ago although it involved syringe feeding her. I cant get her to a vet until Tuesday at the earliest (the emergency vet here only does cats and dogs and her vet refers out to a city over 2 hours away weekends and holidays) although I have a back-up plan with a non-exotic vet I know that I would reach out to if things got really bad before then although I'm not sure they would be willing to help.

So my question is in the meantime am I doing the right thing by trying to get food/fluid into her? Am I doing more harm than good? I just don't want to fully give up on her yet since it seems like she hasn't fully given up either although I also realize it won't be much longer either before she dies or needs to be put down. I appreciate anyone's insights and thoughts.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi everyone,

I used to be a member on this forum bit couldn't remember my username/email to save my life, so I have created a new one. Everyone here was fantastic when I got my 2 beardies back in 2009 and I really appreciated all the advice I received through my first couple of years of being a new beardie owner!

My 2 beardies are now 13 (brother and sister) and I'm pretty sure my girl is dying and I'm not sure how much to intervene.

I found what felt like a fairly large tumor in her abdomen a few weeks ago + significant weight loss (sunken fat pads and other signs of losing weight). Her weight is likely "normal" by number just feeling how heavy she feels but I'm pretty sure it is due to whatever is in her abdomen.

At the time I really started noticing this, I opted to not take her to the vet as she was still acting relatively normal, eating, drinking, pooping (good poops at that hence why I was confident not an obstruction/impaction along with the fact what I felt in her abdomen had defined edges and was movable like a tumor). She showed no signs of pain as far as no stress marks, black beard, lethargic, etc.

I had no intention of putting her through treatment anyway at her age knowing she wouldn't survive chemo or surgery or anything aggressive at 13, so my plan was to keep a close eye on her and take her to the vet as soon as she showed signs of being uncomfortable or in pain. She is established with a vet and had a clean check up in October 2021.

Well Friday night something happened and I don't know what. She went from looking perfectly fine to eyes closed and what appeared to be gasping under her heat light. I pulled her out and she was HOT. Like way hotter than I have ever felt her or her brother be. Nothing has changed with their tank set up or ambient temp in years and she was laying on the tile on the bottom so I'm not sure how she got as hot as she did. She was also extremely pale, which wasn't surprising considering how hot she was.

I managed to get her to cool off slowly at room temp, she stopped what looked like gasping, and was breathing easier although still fairly limp and eyes closed. I put her back in her tank after a few hours and prepared for the worst overnight.

To my surprise yesterday morning she was holding her head up, eyes opened, looking around, improved color, although she hadn't moved from her spot. I was able to get some water in her yesterday and some watermelon juice mixed with water and that seemed to help slightly to where she again was holding her head up, opening her eyes, looking around, although still not moving otherwise.

Same thing so far today... she had her head up, eyes open, looking around this morning (and even as I write this she is looking at me). She still hasn't attempted to move otherwise though. She has feeling in her feet and legs and can move them some when I pinched her toes a bit to see if she had feeling and I know she can see and hear based on how she has reacted to me moving around/talking to her.

She is just very lethargic and tired though. She is breathing easy and no signs of struggling to breathe or in pain (color is so-so but more pale than dark, no black beard, no stress marks). She is on a blanket on the cooler side of her tank so she doesn't overheat again... it is 78 in the room she is in, so I'm not worried about her getting too cool.

I did manage to get some sweet potato and banana baby food in her along with a little water about 2 hours ago although it involved syringe feeding her. I cant get her to a vet until Tuesday at the earliest (the emergency vet here only does cats and dogs and her vet refers out to a city over 2 hours away weekends and holidays) although I have a back-up plan with a non-exotic vet I know that I would reach out to if things got really bad before then although I'm not sure they would be willing to help.

So my question is in the meantime am I doing the right thing by trying to get food/fluid into her? Am I doing more harm than good? I just don't want to fully give up on her yet since it seems like she hasn't fully given up either although I also realize it won't be much longer either before she dies or needs to be put down. I appreciate anyone's insights and thoughts.

@Drache613
@AHBD

 

[AHBD]

I'm so sorry about this situation with your girl, what is her name ? Sorry if I missed it. I think that as long as she willingly eats/drinks it's O.K, just be very careful that she doesn't choke. Hopefully she will just pass in her sleep, that's what sometimes happens. She lived a good, long life which is a testament to your care.

 

[Lexiegurl]

You didn't miss it, I completely forgot to put it in my first post! Her name is Tango (brother is LB, short for Little Bit although he definetly is no longer little!).

She's not taking it as willingly as yesterday. She is able to swallow it if I open her mouth a bit and put a small amt (like 0.1-0.2ml) at a time. I just gave her more of the baby food and got 5ml of that and about 2ml of water in her just now but it was a bit of a struggle.

I think she is done, so unless she shows more willingness for food or water, I'm not going to try to force it. I guess I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't help her before stopping. She's getting more pale too and her back legs and tail are completley limp. She still has some muscle tone in her front legs and head and is still opening her eyes some and hilding her head up though. I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I really hope she does pass in her sleep instead of me having to have her put down. Neither will be easy but that would be a bit easier.

Thank you! I remember telling the vet a couple years ago I wasn't sure that I was doing everything right and he said at their age, obviously I was. That made me feel much better for sure since I had to learn as I went with them.

Thankfully her brother is still doing well but I think even he knows something is up. He usually runs around, black beard out, head bobbing when he can see her. He has seen me feeding her the past two days and has made no attempt to do any of that, just looked at us, so I think he knows too.

She's resting in her tank for now. I'll probably take her out and just hold her for a bit tonight just to hopefully make her a bit more comfortable. Otherwise I'll keep her on her blanket in her tank so at least she is laying on something soft since I use tile.

 

[KarrieRee]

You didn't miss it, I completely forgot to put it in my first post! Her name is Tango (brother is LB, short for Little Bit although he definetly is no longer little!).

She's not taking it as willingly as yesterday. She is able to swallow it if I open her mouth a bit and put a small amt (like 0.1-0.2ml) at a time. I just gave her more of the baby food and got 5ml of that and about 2ml of water in her just now but it was a bit of a struggle.

I think she is done, so unless she shows more willingness for food or water, I'm not going to try to force it. I guess I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't help her before stopping. She's getting more pale too and her back legs and tail are completley limp. She still has some muscle tone in her front legs and head and is still opening her eyes some and hilding her head up though. I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I really hope she does pass in her sleep instead of me having to have her put down. Neither will be easy but that would be a bit easier.

Thank you! I remember telling the vet a couple years ago I wasn't sure that I was doing everything right and he said at their age, obviously I was. That made me feel much better for sure since I had to learn as I went with them.

Thankfully her brother is still doing well but I think even he knows something is up. He usually runs around, black beard out, head bobbing when he can see her. He has seen me feeding her the past two days and has made no attempt to do any of that, just looked at us, so I think he knows too.

She's resting in her tank for now. I'll probably take her out and just hold her for a bit tonight just to hopefully make her a bit more comfortable. Otherwise I'll keep her on her blanket in her tank so at least she is laying on something soft since I use tile.

 

[AHBD]

Sounds like a good plan to help Tango in what is probably her last days, maybe weeks. You're a great beardie parent and my heart goes out to you.

 

[Lexiegurl]

Thank you! That means a lot to me, especially right now. I'll keep yall updated if anything happens.

 

[Lexiegurl]

I thought this might be a good picture to share of her this evening. She's resting comfortably with me right now.

She did make me smile tonight as I am watching some TikTok videos currently and one is of another beardie owner... she keeps opening her eyes and raising her head when she hears her videos.

 

[AHBD]

Such a pretty lemon color, she looks tired but content there and having no black beard is a good thing.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh bless her, she is so beautiful & at 13, just amazing. Her beard isn't even black, so that is
a great sign.
I think you are doing everything you can, absolutely. So many are getting tumors, that is just
too bad. So she isn't really taking in any food or water at all?
Extra love, attention, will do wonders for her. It is so extremely hard to go through this, very
emotionally painful.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[Lexiegurl]

Hello,

Oh bless her, she is so beautiful & at 13, just amazing. Her beard isn't even black, so that is
a great sign.
I think you are doing everything you can, absolutely. So many are getting tumors, that is just
too bad. So she isn't really taking in any food or water at all?
Extra love, attention, will do wonders for her. It is so extremely hard to go through this, very
emotionally painful.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

Thank you Tracie.

Yes, she is refusing food and water now. I gave her a bath today just to see if she would drink since she always drinks in the bath and there was no effort on her part to even lick the water/water dripped on her mouth. She did poop a little bit although when she did she couldn't even raise her tail or move her back legs to do it, but she did get it done.

She did seem to at least enjoy it a bit. It was more of a gentle shower with very shallow water. She did keep her head held up throughout. When we were done, I wrapped her up and cuddled her for a bit outside on our screened porch since it is like 85 here. I figured that would help keep her warm too after the bath.

I am not going to syringe feed her anymore as her lack of drinking in the bath tells me she doesn't want anymore and that's her way of saying she is giving up and I respect that. I won't stress her more than she needs to be. She is also getting a little more pale and been sleeping since her bath. She is comfortable and breathing easy at least and still no black beard. She has been in her tank for about 2 hours but I plan to snuggle her a bit more tonight before I go to bed.

Since I feel like she is saying she is done in her own way, I'm going to call the vet in the AM to make an appt tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday to have her put down. I really think that is the best decision at this point. I'm just very glad she is appearing comfortable at least throughout all this as it would have been so much worse to watch her suffering, although I would have found a way to get her to a vet if that was the case. I just can't justify an over 2 hr drive one way to have her put down when she seems comfortable.

I know I did everything I could and gave her the best chance possible if it was something that could have been fixed. That's why I didn't want to give up on her Saturday morning until I got some food and fluids in her just to be certain it wouldn't help. It still doesn't make it easier, but I'm glad I gave her that final chance and I don't really have any "what ifs" to think about once I have her put down which definetly helps make the decision ever so slightly easier.

I just wish I knew what happened in that 1.5 hrs that she went from fine to not fine. I was even in the same room the entire time, so whatever happened was fast but subtle, so I really am leaning towards stroke, tumor compression, or something that just made it where she suddenly couldn't move as she has made no effort to even stand up since it happened. She has feeling everywhere still, just no strength and muscle tone in the back and no strength in her front legs. But at 13 years old, I know it could be anything.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, although at her age something like this can almost be inevitable it can come as a shock and I know that your heart is really breaking. If you feel that it's best, that understandable. She could possibly just fall asleep at home but I know you don't want the chance of her possibly suffering for days. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Lexiegurl]

Aw, although at her age something like this can almost be inevitable it can come as a shock and I know that your heart is really breaking. If you feel that it's best, that understandable. She could possibly just fall asleep at home but I know you don't want the chance of her possibly suffering for days. My heart goes out to you.

Yeah, I thought it would be a more gradual process where I would end up taking her to the vet, getting meds to make her comfortable, and her slowly declining. I did find at least what feels like at least 1 or 2 more smaller tumors in her abdomen today, so I really do believe she has an aggressive cancer and I'll ask the vet what they think too just to get their opinion. I did look back and she had a clean bill of health at her vet visit back in mid October and looking back at pictures, she was fine even at the beginning of this year. So even more reason to believe it is something aggressive with how quickly she lost her fat pads and began showing bones while at the same time not showing weight loss in her abdomen.

Out of curiosity I did just weigh her. She is 458g, which was her exact weight down to the gram from a vet visit on May 1, 2021. Pretty astonishing really with her lack of fat pads and bones showing. Just another confirmation I feel like of my thoughts of cancer.

I am glad I get to take her to her regular vet as I wouldn't want a new vet not knowing me to think she is mistreated which was a HUGE fear of mine this weekend. Granted if they can't tell that something is wrong with her looking malnourished while having a normal weight number/big abdomen, then I would question their skills to be honest. But it was still a fear nonetheless. I know my vet knows I take care of my animals as I am constantly there for every little thing, so I feel they won't question my decision to not bring her sooner. They are really great too and don't push unnecessary treatments so I feel like they would have agreed with my decision to not pursue any kind of treatment when I first noticed her declining last month.

Her breathing is getting a little slower and deeper and she is raising her head and opening her eyes less today, so there is a chance she may pass tonight, which honestly would be best. I hate having to make the decision to have her put down, but I feel it is best for her so she isn't suffering for days. Although I do still think she is comfortable (or as comfortable as she can be) and there aren't any outward signs of her being in pain or suffering. I'd rather her go as peacefully as possible and don't want her to be in pain in her last days.

Sorry for my rambling in this post. It's a lot of what has been on my mind this weekend. Although I still feel good about all the decisions I have made with her care this past month/weekend, it is still tough to think about.

 

[AHBD]

Either choice is the right one.

 

[tomandalley]

We all know the struggle in making the decision, the doubt we keep fighting, be assured she knows you love her and your decision is the right decision-it is made out of pure love. The hardest part of taking in an animal as a loved one is the guaranteed heartbreak in the end but it is for them that we take up this vow and knowing what will come we still choose love. Sending light and love