Mealworms instead of crickets

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gmagee

Member
Hey everyone, new to the forum and also I should let you know I have not yet purchased my reptilian companion.

I'm looking to getting a baby bearded dragon and where neither my fiancee or myself have owned anything that eats live animals, etc.

We have however owned rodents and dogs, so although this is a completely new world I am more than confident we will be capable.

The only thing we are unsure of is keeping crickets. Now, it may not be as bad as we are thinking, part of me is debating trying it especially with little ones that make less noise and not keeping too many at a time.

However, an alternative seems to be what the missus would be after.

Truth be told this is a "My pet" scenario that I am working to be reasonable. We live in a one bedroom apt. so there is no way the reptile will not live in a common area, which is fine, but I don't think she likes the idea of such a capable bug in our common area.

I found Phoenix Worms, Repti-worms, soldier grubs, or black soldier fly larvae to be an interesting alternative, and also not such a costly alternative as say a silkworm seems to be, but I can't seem to find anything nearby. I don't want its staple protein to be something I have to order constantly, treats are one thing but I mean imagine if you couldn't just get up and go to the grocery store for your food, imagine if you had to order online everytime you had to do your grocery shopping.

There is a specialty reptile store very close to me, I feel very fortunate to say. The owner has been breeding reptiles for over 15 years and seems to know quite alot about them. Its a relief to find someone like this as the girl at petsmart who tried to talk me into buying one on the spot for the commission appeared to know so much about them until it later turned out she only knew so much because she was interested in buying one, yet had never actually been able to. All of her factual "pen on paper" information seemed to go straight out the window once it became apparent she knew everything about them from the moment they get there to the age they leave.

So this specialty store owner has told me depending on the size of baby I get mealworms should be an appropriate alternative protein source to crickets, and they also have a similar cost to the crickets there. I had pretty much wrote off mealworms after all I had read, atleast as a staple but now this guy has me thinking, as he has clearly owned more than I have and I know what you read needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm now wondering if people who have had problems with mealworms in the past either had a reptile that was too small, or gave worms that were too big. The worms too big theory is even more solidified with the knowledge of Morio mealworms and ones that have either been given steroids or have been given something that keeps them in their larval stage longer than normal allowing them to become larger than they naturally would be.

I'm really contemplating this mealworm thing. Might even be contemplating trying crickets when I first get them and then just switching them as soon as I feel they would be large enough to take to the worms without being harmed.

Really interested in everyone's thoughts/views/personal accounts on this topic.

Thanks.
 

jessicaLuck

Hatchling Member
Ordering online is very easy at reptiworms and I get them Wednesday if I order sun/mon. So don't write it off just yet. And u can always supplement with crickets if u forget to order in time. As far as meal worms everything I have read on here says don't give them. The exo skeletan i believe its called are to hard. But someone with more knowledge hopefully will chime in.
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
I agree with jessicaLuck there. Ordering online isn't very difficult, and there is always the alternative of buying crickets or another staple from your local store if you happen to miss an order. You just need to get a good schedule down and figure out how much your bearded dragon can go through in a certain amount of time before you need to order again. And with black soldier fly larvae, with the proper storage (from 50-60 degrees Fahrenheit), you can keep a large amount for months, making the need to order less frequent.

Other than that, I respect if you're looking for more local alternatives.

I'm glad that you're doing thorough research, and that you are taking all things with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, if you're looking for thoughts and opinions, through personal experience and research, I would not recommend using meal worms as a staple (nor as a treat). There are much better options out there without controversy or risk; it just seems more logical to me to go the safe route rather than trying to convince oneself that meal worms, with everyone's varying opinions, can be used safely as a staple.

The problem with meal worms is not necessarily the fact that their shell (composed of chitin) is too hard to digest (yes, that is a factor, but not the main problem--note that crickets and roaches, both common staples, also have chitin-based shells); it's the fact that their chitin-to-meat ratio is significantly higher than most other feeders, making them more difficult to digest.

Hope you enjoy the companionship of your new bearded dragon when you get him or her. And as always, keep up the good work with thorough research and asking questions.
 

gmagee

Member
Original Poster
This is probably my number one fear of ordering online.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=173857

I work with food for a living, shipper/receiver at a gourmet food plant(soups, lasagna, quiche, salads, some sauce and chinese food)
so I know all about how shipping works, fresh, frozen, ltl., etc.

This in no way is intended as a omg stay away from ordering online or repti-worm. Maybe when I'm more well versed in the feeding system I'll dip my feet in the water of ordering online at first, starting with treat style shipments.

Other than that thanks for your input and yeah hopefully someone with more firsthand knowledge of mealworms can chime in.
 

gmagee

Member
Original Poster
Thanks Kaiser, I don't know if there was a delay but as I was replying to jessica's I didn't notice yours.

Thanks for the helpful opinion related to me trying to "convince" myself, you might be right.

Just checked with my fiancee and she seems open to the roaches so.. I might be reading up on them next.

I had checked into them a tad earlier but I guess really seriously thought about it after you mentioned them a couple times about the meat to chitin ratio of mealworms compared to crickets and roaches.
 

Kaiser

Juvie Member
No problem. If anything, it's always good to get other people's opinion about something. I think you'll find that the general consensus around this site is that meal worms aren't something you want your bearded dragon eating on a regular basis, if at all. If you and your fiancee are looking into roaches, the most commonly recommended one is dubia. They're much better staples (in terms of general nutrition and they have a much lower chitin-to-meat ratio).

Good luck figuring things out, and hopefully you can settle on something that's easy, available, but most importantly, best for your bearded dragon.
 

gmagee

Member
Original Poster
yeah, thanks.

The only problem now is no one here seems to sell them, they may in fact be illegal here.

The only way I could possibly get into roaches it is seeming is if I dive right into breeding them myself right from scratch.
 

ynevar

Juvie Member
Some of them are illegal in certain states if you are in the US. There are some legal in Florida if that's where you are from.
 

ynevar

Juvie Member
I personally wouldn't use meal worms as a staple myself for my dragons, have heard too many horror stories. Take a few minutes to look up "meal worm impaction" and you'll know why I just don't risk it. I know that a lot of people think it's perfectly acceptable and mots pet stores will say oh yeah go right ahead. I just won't do it.

Ordering in bulk on the Phoenix worms is the way to go, especially from www.Phoenixworm.com if you are in the US. Depending on your dragon's size they have Zoo Cups which are 1000+ worms.

There are a lot of great online suppliers around. In fact there is a great thread going now about online suppliers.
 

gmagee

Member
Original Poster
I would just die if I could just find something like these like the actual black soldier flies locally first. Maybe when I get the system down I'll be more confident to throw in online purchases.

Like I rarely even buy clothes online unless its a brand I'm used to because I know how each brand's sizing is different from the next. I'd like to know what I need exactly, how long they live and how much I use before I go out and order 500 and find out its not going to last me or 1000 and waste my money watching them die.


etc etc etc etc.

If anyone knows anyone in the Toronto - Ontario area.

I'm so close to attempting dead crickets and seeing if the beardie will eat it or biting the live cricket bullet until hes big enough to be switched or atleast until I have the system down then I'll throw in the phoenix worms to make life easier at that point.

- - - Atleast then I know worst case scenario if I have problems with the phoenix/repti worms (don't order enough, fast enough, order is late, and so on..) I will have all the cricket care stuff on hand to easily go to the store and pick up enough crix to tide me over.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Gmagee....It's good to do your research, and you'll find that keeping these different bugs is not too difficult. The phoenix worms are a favorite for many people, but as your dragon grows it's good to add other larger prey items for the sake of saving money. Crickets [ as one poster mentioned ] are easy to keep in a tank or even a medium plastic tote. You can cut the middle out of the lid top so you can hot glue a piece of screen for airflow. Even with no top , if you set them up properly, few will escape. Another thing to do, get yourself a colony of mealworms. They are cheap, will reproduce at room temps. They are super easy to keep, in a small plastic bin if kept in bran or oatmeal with a piece of carrot / potato, add greens now + then [ don't add too much so it gets moldy ] and use them as they molt. Freshly molted mealies are zero risk of impaction, and if you just have them handy for those inevitable times when other food runs out, or can't be delivered on time, etc, they are fine , even unshed , in small amounts for medium to large dragons. I had a colony for 5 years once....there was always something for the dragons to eat in an emergency.
 

jessicaLuck

Hatchling Member
ynevar":25zli4mv said:
I bought 600 Phoenix worms (same as reptiworms) and they lasted several weeks with only like 2 dying.
WOW!! how do you manage to keep the worms that long? I have one baby and tomorrow she will be finishing off her 700ct that i received wednesday. I didnt order the others in time. I think im gonna have to supplement with crickets or roaches at times because man its expensive. We have had her 2 weeks today and including the 1500 reptiworms i just ordered ive spent almost 100$ on worms!! i dont even spend that much on my dogs food and hes 140lbs! Anyone have places they order there dubias for cheap but still good quality/service?
 

ynevar

Juvie Member
jessicaLuck":3i5arrx0 said:
WOW!! how do you manage to keep the worms that long? I have one baby and tomorrow she will be finishing off her 700ct that i received wednesday. I didnt order the others in time. I think im gonna have to supplement with crickets or roaches at times because man its expensive. We have had her 2 weeks today and including the 1500 reptiworms i just ordered ive spent almost 100$ on worms!! i dont even spend that much on my dogs food and hes 140lbs! Anyone have places they order there dubias for cheap but still good quality/service?

I also bought 2,000 crickets, 1,000 micro-superworms, 600 Phoenix worms and a cup of baby silkworms, which was like 100+ worms (even though they said it was like 50 worms). I didn't *JUST* feed them those LOL

I guess I should have clarified that. I was just stating that they can last a while and not die... hahaha...

I will let you know about dubias. I just placed an order and I'll let you know what I think when I get it.

Marcy
 

jessicaLuck

Hatchling Member
OH ok haha!! Great thanks id like to order some sometime. Your micro supers that u feed, are they appropriate for babies? and if so how many/where do u get them? shes about 4 months. This is her/Size. Ive been told shes a bit small for her age? Actually i think shes grown a smidgen since this even lol.

DSC_0018.jpg
 
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