little bd won't eat

[ricksamyjo]

I just let my son get a bearded dragon...to go along with the guinea pig and bunny my daughter has the cat my other son has and the St. Bernard my husband and I have...we run a zoo...lol. anyway we've never had reptiles before and the guy at the pet store was very helpful...we've had him for 3 days but I can't get him to eat. He won't touch his greens and has only eaten like 4 crickets in the time we've had him. I'm getting worried is it over nothing? Perhaps just getting use to the new enviornment has him feeling blue? he's young only about 8 1/2 maybe 9 inches. Any suggestions?

 

[zimbabwepegasus]

Hi!
Congrats on your new addition!

It may just be relocation stress, but it could be something else. So let's just review to make sure everything else is accounted for!
8-9 inches isn't a super young BD. Depending on prior care, I'd lean toward that's a 3-5 month old beardie.

And now for the questions:
What type of UVB are you using (tube flourescent, coil/compact or mercury vapor bulb)?
What is the brand and strength of the UVB (like 10.0, 5.0 or wattage on a mercury vapor)?
What are your temps (basking spot and cool side)?
What are you using to take your temps (digital thermometer with a probe, stick on/analog therm, or temp gun)?
Are you taking the temp directly on the basking spot?
What are you feeding (greens & bugs)?
How often are you feeding?
What size are your live feeders?
What size is your cage?
Are you feeding in the cage? By hand? In a separate cage?
How are the bowel movements lookin?

What kind of pet store did you get him from? Most unfortunately, a lot of pet stores don't have great reptile information and even the ones that try often don't have specific reptile care down. For example, there are dry foods that are labeled "lizard food" or "tortoise food". This is entirely without regard to the fact that lizards have remarkably varied diets - I mean, they are vegetarian, carnivorous or omnivorous. And that's just to start. Not to say that there aren't great reptile stores and even great individual employees out there... it's just generally a good thing to be a bit skeptical of a pet store as far as herps go!

Ok. I'm off the diatribe.
In other bits:
Pics are so necessary! And what's your little bugger's name?
And lastly, I'm gonna PM a moderator and get this moved over to Health so it gets a bit more attention! Just in case you wonder where your thread went!

 

[ricksamyjo]

I guess the bulb is a compact...the guy got all the stuff together for me. The one bulb for day is suppose to be for heat and uv it's a 40w. then I have a red light (60w) I'm supposed to turn on at night but I'm leaving it on during the day too because the temps in the tank aren't what the guy told me they would/should be. I'm going to get better lighting today. using a sick on analog thermometer it's like 80 on the cool side and 95-100 on the hot side of the tank stuck just over midway up the tank and right next to heat lamps. I have him in a small 10gal tank for now cause that's what I was told to keep him in to make sure he was eating well but I have a 125gal tank to move him to once he's a little bigger. I've offered him collard greens and kale...he won't touch either one. Med/small crickets like I said eat 4...my husband thinks I shouldn't offer those because he won't eat the greens but I figure whatever he'll eat I'll give him so long as it's nutritious. I'm just putting the food in the cage with him and leaving it till it dries under the lights then I replace it with fresh. except the crickets I leave those for about an hr then remove them and offer them back to him I guess about 3 times a day...afraid the crickets will hurt him. bowel movements seem to be fine he's gone twice today (very stinky...lol)...but his skin seems to be more wrinkly than when I brought him home. I'm afraid of dehydration too. I'm leaving a small water rock/bowl in with him he seems to like bathing in it more than drinking it but he's peeing just fine too.

I got him from Pet Paradise...I went to several stores and held several beardies before we felt comfortable with the one we got... We named him Indy since we won't know for a while if it's a boy or girl. They were very knowlegable at the store and they have two grown beardies that they care for as store pets and they were very healthy...a little on the fat side even...lol. all the reptiles and fish tanks were clean and all looked very healthy and well cared for it was by far the cleanest nicest pet store I have ever been in. I made 3 seperate trips to the store before buying there and each time I went in they were handling the reptiles or cleaning the tanks. I have an appointment with a reptile vet next week was the soonest I could get...just for a check up and care info. We really wanted to adopt one..as we have adopted all our other pets... but couldn't find any local for adoption so I finally after 3yrs gave in and bought one.

 

[zimbabwepegasus]

Ok... so here's the skinny:

The compact/coil bulbs are icky. And if it's a 40w, it's definitely one of those. I'm also a little concerned because I can't think of one that would put out much in the way of heat at all... Which makes me very concerned that it's not a UVB, but just a reptile basking bulb with UVA. At best the coil/compacts put out inconsistent UVB at worst they've caused eye problems and other health issues for beardies. But yeah, the entire issue could be lack of UVB related. Good UVB is another very important part of herp care. UVB emulates the sun with enables lizards to absorb calcium properly. And calcium does the same thing for reptiles that it does for people; makes strong bones!

All right you've got a couple options here.
Mercury Vapor Bulbs are the best. Easily. They produce heat & insane amounts of quality UVB. The two good ones are the Megaray (available at http://www.reptileuv.com) or the T-Rex UV Active Heat (widely available, cheapest at http://www.lllreptile.com.
They are $40 and last for a year. It's a screw in bulb- so while you do need a fairly large dome, it will work in one of those. They look like outdoor halogen lights. You could only use one of these if you decide to bump Indy up to the 125g.

The alternative is a flourescent tube bulb (like a fish tank). You want the reptisun 10.0. Again, it is significantly cheaper online, around $20 -compared to at least $40 in a store. A good flourescent tube is a perfectly adequate bulb. If this is a better option for you, do not feel remotely guilty in picking it! Tubes will not produce heat and need to be replaced every 6 months.

So- the tank.
This is sorta a hard decision. And it's up to you. Generally at the size you are talking about, I would say "go ahead and get your beardie in that larger tank". Because he's not eating and it might be related to stress/change... well... maybe keeping him in the 10 is a better option...
Personally, I'd probably order the Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) and put Indy in the larger tank as soon as that arrives. But I'm not there and I don't know your beardie...
If he seems to be having trouble getting his bugs in the larger tank, go ahead and feed him in the 10g.
Four crickets is not enough at all. When young, beardies can run through a ton of crickets. I mean upwards of 70 a day. Yes, I typed that right! Keep offering the greens. He mostly needs protein while he's young anyways. They tend to surprise you by suddenly starting to eat their greens. Neither of mine took to greens right away.

And you need a new thermometer. The stick ons aren't efficient or particularly accurate. A good reptile store (or hardware store) should have a digital thermometer with a probe. The probe allows you to take the temp all over the cage. The probe does need to sit in a spot for a good half hour to get an accurate reading. Cold blooded animals rely on the heat we supply to get themselves warmed. Without that heat, their blood flows sluggishly and their organs can't function properly. It is crucial to good digestion. You want a hot spot btwn 100-110 and the cool side should be in the upper 70s or low 80s. This can be very very tricky to accomplish in a 10g.

Beardie bathing is pretty common. My adults get baths (in my tub) once every 7-10 days. When they were younger it was more like a couple times a week. They do not appreciate these adventures... You might consider soaking him yourself in some lukewarm water (think baby temp) for about 20 minutes to help him absorb some water. My beardies won't drink water. I think Sinclair has 3 times in the 2 years I've had him and Pele even less than that. Some beardies do.

Take a fecal sample into the vet. It's always somewhat smelly- but if it's REALLY smelly, there could be a parasite.
Whew. Now that I just overloaded you with info, I'm gonna let you digest that! I think I covered everything important there....

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from Introductions to Health for more exposure

 

[ricksamyjo]

my biggest concern is that he hasn't eaten in 3 days and I'm terrified we're gonna kill him if we can't get him to eat. I've gone ahead and ordered the bulbs but do I have time to wait on them to arrive if he won't eat? I went ahead and got another basking bulb and have gotten the temperatures to around where they need to be. I got a 75w sunglow bulb on him right now and like I said I've ordered the other because the pet store didn't have any in. They are telling me it's just a combination of stress and the tank being too cold but 3 days and only 4 little crickets I'm just really worried. is there anyway I can trick him into eating? he's so lethargic, just wants to sleep sleep sleep. he has little bursts of energy but with no food I can't imagine he'd have much energy anyway. I hope he's not as delicate as I think he is, he just looks so tiny and fragile to me.

 

[zimbabwepegasus]

Who did you order from?
Some of the vendors ship very quickly!
What bulbs did you order?
I'm guessing you got a better thermometer?
Is there anyway you can post a pic? Generally, I'd say you are ok waiting for the bulb-but without having a solid sense of how Indy's looking, I'm a bit hesitant to do so... just in case.
To post pics on this site you need a free photobucket acct and just load the pic; then copy the IMG code and paste it over here. Super easy!

 

[ricksamyjo]

I used my husbands laser themometer his basking rock is 112 and his cool side is hovering between 87-92 depending on where I shoot the laser. He's eaten one more cricket for me last night and a worm this morning but that's it so far I have some more critters in there but he's not interested. I ordered a t-rex bulb for the 125gal from drs foster & smith website I'm gonna put him in the larger tank as soon as it comes in I ordered them on rush delievery so it should be here with 2 days...I ordered several other things to go with it so I'll hopefully have a happy dragon. Here's some pics I just took of him so you can see what he looks like right now...I woke him up when I picked him up but he was pretty curious of the camera when I took the pic through the glass...hope they show...I'm better with animals than computers

 

[ricksamyjo]

I'm also worried about the sand that's in the cage with him...though he hasn't eaten it and he was in the same stuff when I bought him I'm going to take it out now just in case. He's still pooping ok..but he can't have much left in him since he's not eating. No obstuctions...or don't seem to be anyway. I tried to duplicate the environment he was in before I brought him home so I could reduce the stress on him...apparently it hasn't worked. I'm using everything they used but he's still not eating. The guy at the store told me to "bath" him in gatorade...I haven't yet because I'm uncertain about that I put a call into a reptile vet and am still waiting on a response. I'm a little cranky that they won't just give me an appointment today seems to me it's an emergency and they should make a little time.

 

[zimbabwepegasus]

A reptile vet would be a good call...
you can check out http://www.herpvetconnection.com for a qualified vet in your area. Your little guy looks a bit skinny, possibly dehydrated and like he's had a lack of UVB.
I have heard of soaking in Gatorade, and I think some people use Pedialyte. Let me try and get Tracie (drache613) in on this one- she's super knowledgeable with beardie health stuff.
In the health section, look up slurry. I know there will be a recipe in some thread or another. A slurry is a totally disgusting way to use your blender, but with a syringe (non-needle, obviously), you can probably cram (gently) some food down your baby's throat.
I've been really lucky with my beardies' health and haven't had to do the slurry bit, so I can't help directly there.

Did the pet store hook you up with some calcium powder to dust the crix in?
Since you are getting the T-rex, you will want pure calcium powder, not with D3 (i promise it'll make sense when you're buying it ).

Yeah, eventually I'd get rid of the sand. I use tile and LOVE it! My beardies have dig boxes with sand in them for when they get the itch; but tile is easy to clean, they can't consume it AND it naturally files down their nails which becomes something of an issue when they get older.

One more thing- your cool side is a bit hot... Like 10 degrees cooler would be better. So, for now soak him daily-in water- so he's not getting dehydrated!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Pretty much everything has been covered. Just based on looking at the pics, his eyes are pretty sunken in.
Please lower the basking temps to under 110, & the cool side needs to be around 78-82.
So you will need to begin rehydration therapy right away. Try getting either some gatorade, or pedialyte & dilute it with 3 parts water to 1 part solution of either gatorade or pedialyte. Try to get at leas 1-3 cc's daily to get some oral fluids into him.
Yes, you can bathe him in a gatorade solution, but, make sure it is colorless & sugar free, or you can use pedialyte too.
I would go very easy on the protein right now, since he is very dehydrated. Start with veggies & greens with just a small amount of protein in with the slurry. Since he is dehydrated, too much protein will be hard on his kidneys.
Good that you have decided to get a T-rex active UV light, the mercury vapor bulb is worth it. The light will last you around 1 year, so make sure to mark the date on the base of the bulb or on the box so you remember when to replace it. It should be 12 inches from your dragon. If you feel you need extra brightness alongside of it, then just use a coil energy saver light to brighten up the tank some.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to get him hydrated.
The stools, do they have any urates with them at all? The urates are the white portion of the stool. If so, are they soft or hard?

Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[ricksamyjo]

going now to get pedialyte and give it a try. The pet store said they had a emergency kit...i don't know I'm gonna check it out too. this little fella is really turning out to be difficult...just like a kid...lol. So much for it being my son's responsibility...lol. I did get him to drink a little water while he was bathing. he licked it off my fingers so I'm hoping he'll do the same with a slury. I've got to pick up a blender too...lol. I was soooo not prepared for all this, I just thought I was. :?

 

[ricksamyjo]

mixed a slury and he gobbled down about 2cc before he stopped...I figure as good as he's eating that it should help with hydration and I'm feeling a lot better about just getting something in him. He's already perking up a bit and moving around a lot more so thank you all for your help. I don't know what I'd do without it. I'll keep you posted on how he's doing. I figure I'll keep offering crickets and greens in his cage and continue to feed him the slury a few times a day until he starts eating on his own again. Again thanks a bunch for all the advice.

 

[ricksamyjo]

tracie his urates this morning are moist and soft (not sure if thats good or bad) and his stool is a bit runny but I expected that after the slurry and extra pedialyte mixture I gave him. Also I read that the Urates are his pee so then why does it look like he is peeing clear liquid sometimes? He's still not wanting food but is eating the slurry. I'm fixing to offer him some more now. Should I keep him in the small tank or go ahead and move him to the large tank when the new lighting gets here? The small is 10 gal (that's what he was in when I bought him) the large tank is 125gal aquarium. And since you are so knowlegable is there anything special I can do to make the move to the larger tank less stressful for him. Oh and what is the right lighting heating and such for that type of tank. I ordered the t-rex lighting but I want to be sure I ordered the right wattage and all. I gave the associate the info on the tank and they picked what I needed but I want to be sure it's all the right stuff. Thank you all so much for your help. I feel like an ***** not knowing all this. I thought I had done my research and asked all the right questions before getting him or her...lol. I also noticed he's beginning to shed his skin a bit here and there...don't know if that will effect his eating or not.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, good his urates were soft then & not rock hard. Sometimes they will have water come out with their stool too.
That is good he is at least taking the slurry you made for him that should help him out alot. Continue doing that & giving pedialyte too. Let me know how he is doing.
Yes, the shedding can affect his appetite. Are his eyes going to shed perhaps?
Can you post a picture of the large tank, that 125 gallon is large. You can go ahead & move him into the larger tank, but you should partition it off to where he gets about 1/3rd of the tank just so he doesn't feel lost & can get his food, too.
The T-rex active UV light is a great mercury vapor bulb. I would say a 100 watt would be fine, just because the ballasts tend not to get as hot as the 160 watt, but, I have a feeling they probably sent you the 160watt. How tall is your tank?
The 100 watt needs to be 12 inches from him while a 160 watt needs to be 18 inches. You can also use a non uvb coil energy saver light to brighten up the rest of the tank, or get a long non uvb flourescent tube bulb to run the length of the tank to brighten it up. You can get a good flourescent tube fixture either at Home Depot or Lowes or any hardware store as well.
You might even need a low wattage light, like just a regular household lightbulb to use on the other side to keep it between 78-82 being it is a larger tank.
Do you have a ceramic light fixture that will handle at least 350+ watts? If not, you should go ahead & go to the hardware store to get one of those. A good rule is that you need at least 2 times the amount of supporting wattage from your fixture as what the wattage of your light is, for safety & to reduce the amount of bulb failure because of overheating.
How are you going to mount the light, do you have a screen top or a lightstand?

Tracie