Lighting Questions

[AnthonysGotMilk]

Edit: I am now very confused with what my setup should consist of. I have a ReptiSun 10.0 compact bulb on the cool side of the tank, and then the ZooMed Repti Basking Spot Lamp 75w on the hot side of the tank. My backup UVA/UVB lamp is the Reptile UVB 150 by ExoTerra. On the hot side of my tank, I have a two bulb lighting rig. Should I have a UVB bulb on the right side along with the basking lamp and then the other ReptiSun 10.0 compact on the left side? I am very confused and a little concerned about what is healthy for my dragon. I cannot afford to switch to a tube UVB light right now, so I have to manage with what I have at the moment. Please let me know what the safest thing to do right now would be, thanks.

 

[Taterbug]

UVB and heat should be on the same side, close together when possible. Can you link the bulbs you have?

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

UVB and heat should be on the same side, close together when possible. Can you link the bulbs you have?

I have two UVB lights, although both are compact so I was wondering if they would be safe. I can put one of them on the same side of the heat lamp, should I also keep the other on the cool side of the tank?

 

[CooperDragon]

If you can't switch to a tube, I would try to use the compact bulbs to simulate the wide distribution of UVB across the basking area that you can achieve with the tubes. I've tested the Exo Terra UVB 150 and it doesn't have a great range so you'll want to set it up so it's about 6'' above the basking area through a screen, and closer to about 8'' up without a screen. I'd put the ReptiSun right next to it (both on the hot side) if you're going through a screen because the exposure drops quite a bit as you move to the sides. Then I'd adjust the height of your basking light so you get appropriate temperatures of about 100-105 in the basking spot with some 90s around that and 75-80 on the cool side. I wouldn't put UVB on the cool side in order to provide a gradient and low UVB area to allow for self regulation. Here is a copy of my test results from the UVB 150 which show UV Index at different distances. Optimal UVI in the basking area is within about 3-5.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

If you can't switch to a tube, I would try to use the compact bulbs to simulate the wide distribution of UVB across the basking area that you can achieve with the tubes. I've tested the Exo Terra UVB 150 and it doesn't have a great range so you'll want to set it up so it's about 6'' above the basking area through a screen, and closer to about 8'' up without a screen. I'd put the ReptiSun right next to it (both on the hot side) if you're going through a screen because the exposure drops quite a bit as you move to the sides. Then I'd adjust the height of your basking light so you get appropriate temperatures of about 100-105 in the basking spot with some 90s around that and 75-80 on the cool side. Here is a copy of my test results from the UVB 150 which show UV Index at different distances. Optimal UVI in the basking area is within about 3-5.

Is this what you are suggesting? The branch is the basking spot that she will usually use, but she chills on the hammock otherwise because it is cooler than the actual basking spot if that makes any sense.

The one bulb longer fixture would have the ReptiSun, and the double bulb fixture has the basking bulb on the right and would have the the UVB 150 on the left.

I think this is what you were getting at, but I am not sure. Let me know.

 

[CooperDragon]

Yeah, that should be pretty close. I'm just guessing without being able to take UV readings in the enclosure but based on the numbers I've seen that should provide a wide area of UVB at a decent intensity. It's not optimal in my opinion but it should work for the time being.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

Yeah, that should be pretty close. I'm just guessing without being able to take UV readings in the enclosure but based on the numbers I've seen that should provide a wide area of UVB at a decent intensity. It's not optimal in my opinion but it should work for the time being.

Alright, thank you very much for that help. I will work on getting a tube lighting fixture in the meantime.

 

[CooperDragon]

Sounds good. How big is your tank?

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

Sounds good. How big is your tank?

30x12x12

 

[CooperDragon]

OK that's still pretty small. For that height I'd go with a T8 Zilla Slimline fixture and an 18'' ReptiSun 10.0 bulb mounted inside the tank (command hooks will hold it from two holes on the back) about 6'' over the basking area.

When you move to a bigger tank down the road you may want to invest in T5 lighting which has an optimal output at about 12-14'' making it better suited for larger enclosures.

 

[Rankins]

Has anyone used indoor garden LED lights for full spectrum lighting? I'm not talking about a full grow light. That would probably fry the dragons eyes. But they do make a string of lights that can be cut into short sections. I'm assuming using a pretty even group of the red and blue spectrum would provide a lot of UVA and UVB. But I do worry that the HID lights still might put off too much UV and damage eyes. I usually don't buy the expensive reptile lights. Most light manufacturers fudge on numbers, and in many cases they are just regular full spectrum bulbs put into reptile packaging. I think T5 grow lights are similar to reptile bulbs. But I'm thinking LEDs might be something I would like to research more.

 

[Taterbug]

Has anyone used indoor garden LED lights for full spectrum lighting? I'm not talking about a full grow light. That would probably fry the dragons eyes. But they do make a string of lights that can be cut into short sections. I'm assuming using a pretty even group of the red and blue spectrum would provide a lot of UVA and UVB. But I do worry that the HID lights still might put off too much UV and damage eyes. I usually don't buy the expensive reptile lights. Most light manufacturers fudge on numbers, and in many cases they are just regular full spectrum bulbs put into reptile packaging. I think T5 grow lights are similar to reptile bulbs. But I'm thinking LEDs might be something I would like to research more.

Reptile lights, in the context of UV bulbs are not that similar to full spectrum lights. There are many crappy brands, especially Chinese imports, but the phosphors and glass needed for producing and emitting UVB are more expensive and specialized than typical fluorescent tubes. This is also why certain brands are highly encouraged.

UVB LEDs are very specialized still and none are considered ok for reptiles right yet. Red and blue are quite different from the UV portions of the spectrum, and if your thinking of the newer red/blue only lights those would not be suitable at all since the color is so crazy. In general LEDs have very narrow ranges of spectrum, and even 'white' colored LEDs probably don't look white to reptiles but they can be used for ambient light.

 

[Rankins]

Some LED grow lights have IR also, which wouldn't be good. So your probably right about the LEDs.
But I would love to see hard data on the difference between between T5 grow lights and the good reptile specific bulbs you are mentioning. I'm a bit opinionated, but to be honest, for the most part they are the same wavelengths with the same amount of lumens. Reptile people just like to buy "snake oil" that costs more because of a pretty picture of a bearded dragon on the box.

 

[Taterbug]

Some LED grow lights have IR also, which wouldn't be good. So your probably right about the LEDs.
But I would love to see hard data on the difference between between T5 grow lights and the good reptile specific bulbs you are mentioning. I'm a bit opinionated, but to be honest, for the most part they are the same wavelengths with the same amount of lumens. Reptile people just like to buy "snake oil" that costs more because of a pretty picture of a bearded dragon on the box.

To clarify too, if you are talking about _just_ UVA then I fully agree. The UVA output of most bulbs is going to be roughly the same and barely enough to qualify as existing, certainly not worth paying the extra at a petshop. In the case of giving good UVA the best bet is Metal Halide HID lighting (using very specific bulbs since some MH bulbs can infact be dangerous) though this is an expensive option.

UVB on the other hand is another story, and I wouldn't want anyone reading this thread to decide to forgo the expense of a good UVB lamp thinking any 'full spectrum' or grow light will do fine. Hortilux claims to have the 'first and only' full spectrum T5 UVA/UVB grow lamp. Just based on the manufacturers claims I wouldn't use them myself - wavelengths below 290nm are what was associated with eye damage in the past.

The UV Meter owners group is a great resource when it comes to lighting and they have test reports for many popular bulbs including spectral analysis.

I don't have many plants so no grow lights but a few quick photos of the UVB out put (as UVI) of some of my lights. A UVB lamp (reptisun 10.0 which is over a year old, the halogens in the back are just flood lights and don't give UVB), a "super full spectrum" (zoomed ultra-sun), a standard "Full Spectrum" bulb and a white LED flood lamp.

 

[Rankins]

I did find some white light LEDs that are in a hood designed to be used over an aquarium. It is adjustable to fit several sizes. I'm in a bit over my head on this topic. I'm not versed in what wavelengths do what, or which ones are harmful.
But if some put out white light in a reptile usable way it would be an interesting investment opportunity.