Lighting/Heating Big Enclosures

[Kryton]

This thread has been moved and has changed subject titles.
I need some suggestions on heating and lighting a 6' Enclosure.

First let me say sorry if I ramble on a bit.

So we have had Sarge for just over 7wks,which makes him around 3mths old and he was purchased from Petsmart.He is one VERY lazy lizard( I will not go as far to say lethargic but I could be wrong) cause he just stays in his basking area pretty much all of the time. I had some feeding issues in the beginning(just eating very little or not at all) but now he gets fed by hand and recently I have been sticking crickets in a cup and tilting it in front of him. :lol: He goes right in it and gobbles them up.Very picky eater this dragon is.I have tried Pheonix worms till he got a taste of whatever they come in(it was like the second or third one) and now will not touch them. I even tried picking them out and dropping them in water to get it off. He just looks at them then tilts his head and looks at me like saying "Get them nasty things out of my face".Really sucks cause I wanted his staple to be worms for a while.I have also tried soft pellets in a cup,beardie bites and cactus bites.He gets a fresh chopped mix of Mustard,Collard and Turnip greens every day but only comes down accasionally to eat some.He gets a bath everyday if not every other day and he runs around a lot in it.He doesnt like it to much.I let him run around a little in the living room as well.He does get some exercise. I also take him outside to get some sun for about a half an hour.
So my main Question is why is my dragon so LAZY? Is it just him or my setup?

Temps are taken by a gun and a stat with a probe.
Basking Spot: 105* directly to about 99* around his spot
Cool Area: 74* w/AC on
The temps around his area are 75* under his hammock to 78* under the BS
Humidity: 53% taken by an analog reader
UVB: T5 10.0 HO Reptisun which is about 14" from the basking spot.
Housing: 6'long x 22"high x 18'deep I have blocked the tank off to 3' long for now.
Substrate is cardboard paper
Poopingnce to twice a day depending on how many crickets he eats
Eating I will say at least 24 crickets a day
Here is a pic of my setup:

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Thanks for any and all comments/suggestions

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Are you using a bright white basking bulb? Also the uvb needs to be mounted in the tank and he needs to be able to get within 6 to 8 inches of it.

 

[Kryton]

Yes,the basking bulb is a ZooMed Basking spot lamp.
FYI,my UVB is a T5 (10.0 sry forgot to mention that I will edit) HIGH OUTPUT Reptisun tube. Manufacturers recommendations and a couple of peeps on this site state that your pet should be no closer than 12" and no farther than 24" for maximum UVB exposure. 6"-8" is for a T8 tube. Hey its what I have read

Thanks

 

[Wolfeden]

You are correct on the T5 10.0 placement, sounds good where it is.

I'm far from an expert but it could just be that the basking area is the only place where the temps are preferable. IMO 74°/75° is a little too cool for daytime temps even on the cool side...should be more like 80°-85°.

So he might just be staying in the area that has the temps and light that he requires.

 

[Kryton]

That is a pretty good observation Wolf,never gave that a thought.
I went through three different wattages of lamps to get that BS right around 105*.I finally went with the 50watt ZooMed Basking spot lamp combined with the Exo Terra lamp stand that sticks to the back of the tank to get it just right.
So now I could use some suggestions on raising the temps in the tank to get those parameters.
Would using a PAR38 flood lamp keep the BS at the right temp while also raiseing the rest of the tanks temps?

 

[Wolfeden]

You have a pretty big enclosure so it's going to take more trial and error.

How about trying a low-mid wattage bulb added to the cool side without changing anything else.
Maybe the rise in cool side temps, which seems to be needed, will also raise the warm side, also needed, without changing the basking spot...not sure.

You could also search the Enclosure Forum for things like "lighting for 6' enclosure" etc to see what others are doing.

I don't have a lot of experience with BD's or enclosures but just trying to think about the problem logically.

If you don't get a solution you could also start a new thread on Lighting/Heating Large Enclosures.

Good luck.

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from General to Enclosures

 

[Kryton]

Thank You Moderator for moving this thread to Enclosures. It kept me from starting a whole new one.
Thank You Wolfeden for your suggestions. I am going to try first getting a Par38 flood lamp and try that then going to get a 25w household bulb and stick that over the cool side.
I could use some more suggestions to help me out please.

Thanks

 

[Taterbug]

Hi there, a PAR38 should give you a better spread of light and help up your ambient temps - they are inconveniently large though. The spot lamp style may be putting off a relatively small patch of light/heat and a hotspot at the middle. You can use your gun to "map out" the temperature gradient of the surfaces - you'll want your basking temp relatively uniform for a patch at least the size of your dragons head and belly.

Wolfs suggestion of adding another light may be helpful for some gentle heat - where in the home is the tank? Is the top all screen?

Fabric and mesh hammocks don't really make great basking sites. They aren't good at absorbing and redistributing heat. A large stone or dense wood may help at least keep the basking area warmer/more even.

 

[Kryton]

Hey Taterbug
Thx for the responce. The tank is not covered at all and it is positioned next to a non windowed wall. I am going to run out in a few and get a Par38 75w to see where that puts me. My only question would be that if I switch out to that Flood lamp,will I still be getting the right amount of UVA?

 

[Taterbug]

My understanding is that halogens as a 'family' of lights give off good UVA. If you stick with the halogen you should be good.

Part of your problem may be the lack of a lid, open and screen tops let all the heat rise right back out. Is there a way to safely cover part of it and see if that helps trap some heat? Of course you want it to be well ventilated still and not a fire hazard, so it may not be possible.

 

[Kryton]

These are the lights that I used when it was set up for fish. They are really good and expensive light fixtures so I figured I could use them for this setup. I am only using one of them atm with one Reptisun lamp. I will though be using both in the future with adaquite shade. Also I have been trying to find the Zoomed NatureSun for the second lamp with no luck. I have emailed ZooMed customer service to see if they do make this tube size for my fixture.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/aquaticlife-dual-lamp-t5-ho-freshwater-light-36in?sc=10&category=2789
Anyways no it is not covered but with the T5 HO lamps that I am useing maybe I can cover the tank with a screen,not losing a lot of UVB while still retaining heat.
This is going to be a huge trial and error effort especially when I open the whole thing up. WOW just thought about when winter gets here again :shock:

 

[jarich]

What a great sized enclosure! They are definitely more trial and error to get right, but worth the effort for your dragon. If he is sitting on the basking spot all day, then that's a good sign things are not warm enough in general. As Taterbug mentioned, the hammock is a little limiting in such a big enclosure because it's a pretty sharp gradient. He is either directly in the light at that temperature, or a big height, and I assume temperature, difference down to the ground below. Could you move the large tree over to be under the basking light? That way there wallis be various levels, and temperature, that he would have to choose from. Or you could build a rock/brick basking platform that more gradually went up to the height of where the hammock is now, so that he had choices again.

Either way, your enclosure does give you the option of more quality lighting since it is so big. Unfortunately none of the lights you've got produce much UVA at all. Fluorescents are notoriously bad UVA producers, and the normal halogen/reptile basking bulbs are no better. Both register around 200 um on the Solarmeter 5.7 (UVA meter). Now an average day in the shade is around 1100-1500 um, so you can imagine how that would be limiting. In direct sunlight the meter cuts out as it can't read that high. So I would recommend getting another bulb that will add both heat and UVA. Metal halide lighting is amazing, but it's not the cheapest option. Since they require a ballast, it will usually run you around around $100 all in for the ready made ones. If you are handy with electrical wiring at all, then you can buy the ballast separate and save around $20-30. I've got an ExoTerra SunRay metal halide that produces around 1600-1800 um of UVA at 20", and has a really fantastic spectrum overall.

You could also get a self ballasted MVB light to increase the UVA. They don't generally last as long, but are cheaper. Since it's UVA and heat you are looking for, the ExoTerra Solarglo would work and is only about $30. It's not a good UVB producer, but you already have the T5 HOs for that. The Zoomed MVB doesn't produce nearly as much UVA, even though it's more expensive, so I wouldn't bother. If you want to spend a bit more, the MegaRay MVB is the best, and produces about double the other brands. It's around $60. All those MVBs just screw into a normal hood lamp.

If you were to put one of those lights to the right of the basking bulb, it would help with raising ambient temps and give a huge UVA boost. I'm sure you would start to see an increase in activity as a result. These are sun loving lizards, who can see UVA like we see colour, so they need really bright enclosures to get natural activity levels.

 

[Taterbug]

Jarich, Do you happen to know where incandescent globes score on UVA?

I think Naturesun is a T8 only bulb. I got an Ultrasun for my T5 fixture since it needs two bulbs to run. Having the open top may actually come in handy, since your tank is so big you have the option of some of those higher power bulbs, smaller cages and the closed top ones aren't as flexible.

 

[Kryton]

ZooMed customer service emailed me and said that the Naturesun is not currently made in the T5 version. They recommended the UltraSun.
Wow Jarich that is a lot of good info Thank You. I will take your advice and purchace the ExoTerra Sun Glo for now and get that SunRay down the road. The two best stocked pet stores around me had neither the UltraSun or the Sun Glo so I have ordered them both. Arrival would probably be sometime next week with the holiday weekend upon us.
I went to the hardware store to get that Par38 and they only had one 75watt that wasnt neither an LCD or an enclosed CFL. Tried it and it sent the temps skyrocketing,even with the stand as high up as it would go. Cool side only went up almost 2* so took it out.
I just can not get over how the ZooMed Basking light that I have doesnt put out the sufficient UVA rays that a lizard needs even though it is stated it does on the package. Just kind of P's me off thinking how much money they made off of me. I went through three of them to get the BS at the right temp.
Anyways Thanks guys for all your very useful info it helped a lot.
If anyone else wants to chime in with any comments,ideas or suggestions Please do so this thread is far from over for me. OMG wait till winter gets here. Anyone know where I can find a Beardie snow suit at :lol: :lol:

Thanks
Kryton