Lifting fears

[DuelingPokemon]

Hey guys, I was wondering if I could get some advice?

I have a young beardie at home that's roughly about a month and a half old; He's been living with me for about a week and a half and, so far, has been a very social little dragon.
Once he got acclimated to his new home, I have taken to handling the little guy at least once to twice a day so that he gets use to being held and given affection. Loves his back rubs and gentle scritches on the head but there's some behavior I'd like to inquire about.

One is...well, he doesn't seem to like heights very much. He goes into a panic and flails around in my hand a little when I lift him in and out of his tank and carry him a short distance but settles down once I sit down and hold him level. Is there a way to help with that?

Another is he's taken to closing the eye facing me when I'm by his tank just kinda talking with him or when I'm holding him. What does that usually mean?

 

[CooperDragon]

The eye closing (in my mind at least) means I'm annoyed but will still tolerate this and if I close my eye maybe you will go away. A very mild version of black or puffed out beard. It's pretty common.

As far as the flailing goes, are you supporting both feet and both hands? They really don't like feeling off balance so it's important to support them completely when you pick them up or they will panic and flail.

 

[DuelingPokemon]

Ah, okay. Because he'll go from just doing it with one eye to both and completely pancaking against my arm or palm depending on here he's laying. So maybe it's a trend of that to: "Okay, maybe dis not so bad...."

I'm just hoping that he eventually gets use to it. I have no intention of harming nor hurting him. He does seem to like it when I come up and talk to him though.

He tends to slip around a little when I start to lift him. I will typically try to get a finger or two and start to lift from there before slipping the rest of my hand under him. I don't like pinching at the sides because that's a soft area and, again, the last thing I want to do is hurt him.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'll bet it does turn into "Okay, maybe dis not so bad...." once they settle and see what's going on.

 

[DuelingPokemon]

Well, I just gotta take it one day at a time. Maybe i'll try hand feeding him tonight with those hornworms that came in and see if he links being held with being a good thing.

I do have one other question though! I've had leopard geckos i've held in the past do the same thing and was curious to see if the meaning was the same with beardies.

Lately, Nanaki has been flicking out his tongue and licking at my hands/arm when I'm holding every once in a while. I've read geckos do this when they're exploring something new. Does it mean the same or something else? :dontknow:

 

[CooperDragon]

It's the same. They lick everything in sight to learn more about it. When my guys run around the house they have to pause every few steps to lick something. Anything. The ground, the air, side of couch, etc. It usually shows that they are alert and in a good mood. When they lick my hand I think of it as a greeting (although that isn't likely accurate it amuses me).

 

[DuelingPokemon]

Ah okay, that's good.

I"ve seen him doing it lot on his driftwood but then he'll pause, stare at me and then do his silly beardie grin. This makes me curious to see what his reaction is going to be when I get his vivarium if he's doing this in a simple tank.

 

[Taterbug]

Keep in mind being picked up by a bigger creature is scary stuff for a little dragon. The more you support him (including the tail) the more comfortable he will feel but it's still likely to be unnerving to them. Pepper is a few years old now and still gets scared if I pick him up too quickly or move to fast.

Dragons and many other reptiles have a special organ in the roof of their mouth, when they flick their tounge they are sampling chemicals with it. Like when snakes flick their tongue.

 

[DuelingPokemon]

Oh dear, I didn't realize he was uncomfortable with his tail being unsupported. o.o I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I pull him out. Thank you for letting me know about that.

Interesting! I knew snakes did that but was unaware Beardies and others did something similar. Thank you very much!

 

[kingofnobbys]

I find that slipping my hand under their chest and tummy and supporting their entire body is the best approach.

 

[DuelingPokemon]

I've been trying y'all's advice and it seems like a fifty/fifty shot with Nanaki.

One minute he's as calm as can be and I'll either have him on a small pillow in my lap and the next, I pretty much have to wrestle to keep a grip on him! Hes gone flying out of my hands more then once on my bed and it scares me to no end because he could fall off. This, in turn, scares him and causes him to flail more. I've even had to pinch him by the tail (which I know I should Not have done) because he slipped away so fast.

The end result being neither of us happy and I fear this breaking any chance of a bond forming between us. This is also making me feel terrible because I feel i am doing actions I shouldn't be and I want to be a trustworthy owner that Nanaki doesn't have to be scared of when I handle him.

What can I do? I know it's not instantaneous but, I just feel like I'm flailing when it comes to this.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Since he's really tiny , he might be very anxious about being picked up , and a real wriggler, or simply hyperactive , Toothless was like that for ages , only just settled down in the last month or so, he is now about 8.5 months old and has transformed from a super active livewire who wouldn't often sit still for more than a few minutes to a little angel who now loves snuggles and being petted.


You might find he's more settled if you drape a tea-towel over him initially when you get him out and deposit him on your lap/chest/tummy and leave him under it for a minute or two to settle.
I also found that if I placed Toothless' tail under my wrist (just the weight of the wrist) was enough to discourage Toothless from making a dash , very young beardies (hatchlings) have only 2 speeds , warp10 and dead still .... and can move suddenly with no warning.
Also makes them feel more secure if you place your cupped hand over the little ones when holding / nursing them.

I never held my little ones unless I was seated , if one got off me they either landed on the lounge next to me or on the carpet in-front of the lounge (so not far to fall).

More you handle him the more confident you'll become with handling him, and he'll pick up on his and learn that you wont:
-- hurt him
-- drop him.

 

[Taterbug]

My suggestion will probably be counter to most on here...

But don't force handling. Building a trusting/positive bond won't happen if the experience is fearful or otherwise negative. It may be a slower method and not as exciting but hopefully easier on your little one and safer.

Find something as a reward, many dragons love waxworms and they are easy to place on you hand. Maybe uou get lucky and there is a fruit he enjoys. Use the treat to lure him to your hand, then on to it and eventually get used to being picked up. Move super slowly, supporting as much of the body as possible (I let pepper climb up my arm like a branch).

With when he was litte I would setup a safe area for us and let him run away from me and explore if he wanted. He's still more in charge of interactions than I am, the less I force him to stay on or near me the more relaxed he seems to be. There really is zero motivation for them to hang out with us if they aren't used to us or feel safe, they aren't social or affectionate like puppies. This also helps avoid situations where you have to try and snatch him up (like a predator).

Little ones especially are flighty and doing their best not to get eaten - it may take time for him to build up that classic beardie confidence.

 

[kingofnobbys]

^^ Tater is 110% on the money.

I restricted myself to only about 5 minutes per day of handling (barest absolute minimum associated with tub cleaning, and initial handfeeding of a few of the first crickets of the day each (bonding and getting Toothless and Peppa to associate my hand and fingers and handling with a pleasureable experience - yummy crickets) , this I did for the first 2 - 3 months and slowly built it up over time after that.

Peppa was great with being handled from the getgo (the breeder handled her heaps as she is very pretty and she really liked her , and was thinking of keeping her) , Toothless was handled lots less and so was a bit skittish, didn't really like being picked up, was OK for while once on the tummy or chest and being petted / given some crickets by hand.

Time and patience is the key , it takes time to build trust.

 

[DuelingPokemon]

Well, I tried what you guys suggested with a couple of hornworms this morning before I left for work. (He's definitely clicked that I am the human who provides food given his expectant look every morning.)

He shied away from my hand about a half inch but given the bright colored yummy I was holding, he shuffled forward and grabbed it before shying away again. So I'll try this again later on this evening when I get home. I don't have any waxworms at the moment but I might try it with the phoenix worms I have as well. Nanaki doesn't seems to mind that I gently rub his back and his chin; if anything, he kinda stands still while I do it and doesn't back off.

As far as his previous handling, his caretaker told me he worked with the hatchlings but I don't know exactly how much.