Lethargic Neenu

[NeenuMom]

So here's the situation....
6 days ago Neenu (about 7 months old) started acting very strange to me. He would sit at the cold end of his tank with his arms and legs spread out just laying there. He wouldn't eat crickets, kael, lettuce, spinach, or the purple lettuce! I moved the veggies into the corner that he was laying in and he just layed his head in it, and wouldn't eat it And the crickets would just climb all over him when I'd put them in the cage. Occasionally, if a cricket happened to stop in front of him he would eat it.. but all in all, in the last 6 days he's probably eaten a total of 20-25 crickets. He usually eats 40-45 a day. I was able to get him to drink about 3 TBSP at a time every other day.. so that's good! Last night I was able to get him to eat a couple super worms. The suppliments that I use are Calcium with vitamin D3 ultrafine powder, and Herptivite Multivite. I dust worms and crickets. Also, I don't know if this is important or not, but when he would lay on the ground on the cold side, he would lay facing out to the room, I'm assuming so he could look out into my living room.

His last BM was 2 days ago. Every other day is pretty common for him.

At first I figured he was going to finish shedding. 3 weeks ago his whole tail shed but not the rest of his body. I bathe him everyday and clean his cage every 2 days with soap and water.. and I always rinse it really well.

Here's my cage set up:
I'm not sure of how many gallons it is.. however the dimentions are 2.5ft L x 18in H x 12in D. On the Warm side it is 110 Degrees F and on the Cold side it's usually about 87-91 Degrees F. Since the tank is on the smaller side, it's harder to keep the Cold side at a stabe 85 degrees...but he's been staying down at that end of the tank for the last few days anyway so maybe he's too hot (if that's even possible)?

For lamps I have a standard 100 w white light lamp and a ceramic lamp for heat. I also have a small space heater next to the tank for additional heat. I have the space heater mounted up about 8 inches from the bottom so the glass doesn't get too hot if he happened to lay against it. I don't want him to get burned!

For my thermometer I have this string with what looks like a christmas light on the end with a suction cup on it and you put it in your cage... at the other end of the wire is the actual thermometer.

The flooring in my cage is simply newspaper. That gets changed every 2 days.

I hope that this is enough information.

Thank you for your time.
Anna

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Hi Anna and Neenu,

I would try and bring those temps down a little,especially the cool side. For the size tank you have the basking light (100W) should be all you would need for heat. Try getting rid of the CHE and the heater you have outside his viv. Check the temps and see if that works better. Your little guy could be over heating and yes it is possible(that's why they have a cool side)
Your temps can range from 100-110(basking) and 80-85(cool side)
I noticed you did not mention a uvb light..what kind you have?

I hope this helps

Dawn

 

[NeenuMom]

I forgot to mention that on day 3 of the "sickness" is when I added the ceramic heater-light because I couldn't get my tank above 90 degrees no matter how hard I tried. My parents have 2 dragons also so my dad let me borrow some items to try and help.

I don't have a UVB lamp... I know they're very very important, I just don't have the space on top of my tank... Could not having one be the reason why Neenu is sick?

Also, when I walk passed the glass or look in at him he licks the glass.. just quickly.. I don't know if that's significant either thought... but if there was some kind of germs on the glass?

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

The uvb is extremely important to your beardies health. They need it to produce vitamin D3, which is neccessary for metabolizing calcium. If they don't get any or enough uvb that can cause serious health issues such as MBD(Metabolic Bone Disease).

As small as your tank is that 100w bulb should be plenty. The thermometer your using is it a digital with a wire probe at the end? Is it an Acurite by any chance? When you measure your temps where are you putting the probe? Are you placing it on the basking spot? How long do you allow it to sit before you read the temp. It needs a good 30-45 mins for an accurate reading.

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Hi Anna..it's me again.

How long have you had Neenu and has he ever had a uvb light?

Dawn

 

[NeenuMom]

A friend of mine breeds dragons and I got him at 4 weeks old in August I believe. I've never had a uvb lamp in my tank, however, my parents occasionally watch Neenu when I'm gone and they do have a uvb lamp. He'd spent a lot of time there while I was moving.

The people that we had gotten our dragons from a pretty basic set up, no uvb lamps and their dragons are healthy so I guess I just figured he would be fine without one.

It's something I'll definitely look into. Any other illness possibilities or symptoms I should watch for?

 

[NeenuMom]

The uvb is extremely important to your beardies health. They need it to produce vitamin D3, which is neccessary for metabolizing calcium. If they don't get any or enough uvb that can cause serious health issues such as MBD(Metabolic Bone Disease).

As small as your tank is that 100w bulb should be plenty. The thermometer your using is it a digital with a wire probe at the end? Is it an Acurite by any chance? When you measure your temps where are you putting the probe? Are you placing it on the basking spot? How long do you allow it to sit before you read the temp. It needs a good 30-45 mins for an accurate reading.

I've tried to heat my tank with just my lamp, it doesn't get warm enough.. my apartment is very cold. The thermometer is digital and has the probe thing at the end but I don't think it's Acurite... It says "repti.." something on it with a picture of a lizard. I wish I would have looked at it closer (I'm at work right now so I can not check). I usually just stick it in there and check a while later... I check the temp all over the place.. I've been kind of a fanatic about it, I check the top of the cage, bottom of the cage.. on both the warm and cool side, the basking spot usually runs at 110 or so.. but lately he hasn't been going there.. he just lays on the cool side.. which is what concerned me in the first place. The tank has never been as hot as it's been the last 3 days and I have no idea if this is even possible.. but could he have gotten used to the tank being much cooler.. adapting to the 85-90 degree temp? The ceramic light is what boosted it up to the 110 for me.

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Okay Anna, this is what you need to do.

First of all you need to get a uvb light. If you can, try to get a Reptisun 10.0 (tube bulb). It is one of the best ones out there. You will also need to get a fixture,of course, to put it in. This needs to be your top priority. Your beardies health depends on it.
You said it won't fit on top of your tank. Seeing your tank is only 2.5 ft long, it is actually a bit small for a bearded dragon. How big is Neenu ? Is there anyway you can get a bigger tank for him ?

I know what I'm telling you to get is going to cost you some money. I don't know if your financially able to afford them,if not, try looking on craigslist in your area and maybe you could find some if not all of these things. Many people on this site get their tanks and enclosures on craigslist. In fact, I am going to look at a bigger enclosure for my bd(Rex) tonight that I found on craigslist.

Okay, we also need to get your temps figured out. I'm thinking it might be your thermometer and it's not giving you an accurate reading. Your temps are also very important to Neenu's health. I'm going to add one more thing to that list of things to get and that is a new thermometer. There is a thermometer(I mentioned earlier) called Acurite, it is a digital thermometer w/wire probe. You can get them at Walmart for $12,they are in the area with the home thermometers. This will give you an accurate temp.

Is there any way you can post a picture of your tank and a picture of Neenu?

I hope I'm not overwhelming you too much. I just want to help you figure out this problem so we can get Neenu feeling better.

Dawn

 

[NeenuMom]

Okay Anna, this is what you need to do.

First of all you need to get a uvb light. If you can, try to get a Reptisun 10.0 (tube bulb). It is one of the best ones out there. You will also need to get a fixture,of course, to put it in. This needs to be your top priority. Your beardies health depends on it.
You said it won't fit on top of your tank. Seeing your tank is only 2.5 ft long, it is actually a bit small for a bearded dragon. How big is Neenu ? Is there anyway you can get a bigger tank for him ?

I know what I'm telling you to get is going to cost you some money. I don't know if your financially able to afford them,if not, try looking on craigslist in your area and maybe you could find some if not all of these things. Many people on this site get their tanks and enclosures on craigslist. In fact, I am going to look at a bigger enclosure for my bd(Rex) tonight that I found on craigslist.

Okay, we also need to get your temps figured out. I'm thinking it might be your thermometer and it's not giving you an accurate reading. Your temps are also very important to Neenu's health. I'm going to add one more thing to that list of things to get and that is a new thermometer. There is a thermometer(I mentioned earlier) called Acurite, it is a digital thermometer w/wire probe. You can get them at Walmart for $12,they are in the area with the home thermometers. This will give you an accurate temp.

Is there any way you can post a picture of your tank and a picture of Neenu?

I hope I'm not overwhelming you too much. I just want to help you figure out this problem so we can get Neenu feeling better.

Dawn

Gah, my tank is 3.5 ft long.. sorry, typo. Neenu is probably a foot and a half I would guess.

I'll take a picture tonight of the set up, as long as you won't make fun of me for taping pictures of myself in his cage so he never forgets me! haha.

Another thing I wanted to mention and just remembered now, he had an incident with one of my parents' dragons about a month and a half ago where his tail was bitten.. or slammed in the top of the tank.. something happened to it and the tip ended up falling off. We kept it clean and put Neosporin on it.. but could he have caught some type of infection from that? It's all healed up now and just fine.. I'm just not sure which information is important and which isn't.

I'm going to stop by the petstore and get a uvb light after work.. Will it be a quick recovery?

 

[zebraflavencs]

I would also like to suggest a trip to the vet. If it is indeed the lack of UVB, then your dragon may need shots to bring it around. Suggestion #2, at 18" you really should have a larger enclosure, suitably 24" deep. This way the dragon can turn around completely without brushing up against the sides.
If you want a cheap way to go with a new enclosure, check out Goodwill or Salvation Army stores, even Yard Sales ! Get something like a old stereo (turntable) type stand alone, gut it, and go from there. Just make sure the new enclosure is wide enough, and most stereos are at least 3 to 4' long and 18" high.
Janie.

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

That's great that your tank is bigger!!

All information at this point is important. How does Neenu's tail nip look? Is there any black on it? When you send pix try to get one of his tail(so we can see if it's healed properly). It's good you put Neosporin on it.
It sounds like Neenu is growing pretty good, if he is 18" give or take a few.

As for a quick recovery I don't know, I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with her.Hopefully it's just a matter of proper lighting. I am going to PM Tracie(drache613),she is very knowledgable in bd health issues. She will probably have some questions for you as well. Try to get those pix posted as soon as possible.

Dawn

 

[NeenuMom]

Money isn't really a big problem, I always knew I'd have to get a bigger tank eventually so I'll start looking into that now.

His tail healed up just fine.. It was marked with a sharpie right after it happened and didn't extend beyond that line. It's completely healed now with no marks or anything, just looks like regular dragon tail to me. It was pretty raw for about a week when it happened intially, but it shriveled up and fell off not long after.


I'll hopefully have some pictures up on here pretty soon. Short days at work=my favorite

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry to hear your baby is having some trouble.
Unfortunately, not having UVB causes a myriad of problems but it is not always immediately seen. If someone is not using UVB sometimes the dragon can hold out & appear healthy for quite awhile. Each dragon is different & some just do not hold up for as long.
Once they begin not properly absorbing calcium & vitamins their health will begin to decline over time.
You will need to start using some liquid calcium for a boost right now, for at least a month to get his levels back up. You will also need to get a UVB light. Since you have a larger tank, you could use a mercury vapor bulb.
The best two are the T-rex active UVB heat or the Megaray. For the sized tank you have, I would suggest using the 100 watt which you need a 12 inch clearance away from your dragon. You do have a 3 foot tank, correct? That is a good sized tank. If you want to get a larger one that is fine also.
Does he have much of an appetite?
If he had a tail nip, that can usually cause infection but you said it just shriveled up & fell off then? A picture would be helpful but it sounds like it is most likely all healed up now.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[NeenuMom]

Well I'm very happy to report that Neenu's legs and arms started to shed last night
Hopefully this will explain the funk he's been in lately..

I was still a little worried about him so I took him to my parents' house so my dad can keep an eye on him. Of course he acts normal for them :evil:

He ate some salad and crickets yesterday, which is good!

I'll be getting the UVB light after work tonight.

Something strange I did notice last night when I was giving him some water was that on the tip of his tongue, there's a grey dot... It's not just pink. Normal?

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Some beardies do act up during a shed, this could explain the not wanting to eat.
Glad to hear you're getting the uvb and yes, the gray dot is normal.