Lethargic and Hiding

[BlazesGrandma]

Hi,

So just when Blaze seemed to be settled into his new enclosure, things have taken a bad turn. Initially when we put him in there, he was scared and acted a bit skittish, running and hiding when anyone moved in or near the room. But it's been a few months and that had gradually stopped. I would take him out and put him in his old bin for cricket feedings, and he would go nuts over them, sometimes biting or jumping into the container as I poured them out. He was a bit of a pig and ate a lot.

About 2 weeks ago he started acting very scared again. we would often find him pressed up against the glass doors or just his face there, looking out, and when we'd go near he would go all skinny and cower and try to hide (in plain sight). Several times I would be home from work for lunch to feed him and I'd have to move the doors while he was pressed against them to get him out to feed him (so I could go back to work). He sometimes would puff out and his beard would go black and he hissed a little, but I was able to take him out and he was fine.

Since then he has gradually been spending more time under his log and does not want to be in his feeding bin at all. It started with him refusing to eat in there, so I'd put him back in his home and try again a half hour later and then he would eat. This went on for a few days until he just plain refused to eat in his bin. Would just sit there looking up, and eventually start clawing at the sides trying to get out. A few times I have been able to feed him crickets in his enclosure using tongs, but sometimes he still won't eat. His eyes look a bit sunken - he has water bowls and knows how to drink from them as I've seen him do it, but I did give him some water from a dropper yesterday. When I go home at lunch time he is still under his log and cold (the cool side is 80 degrees Celsius). Warm side is about 86-90 Celsius at the floor, and about 110-115 on the basking spot. I have had to remove him from his hide several times to put him under the light and he doesn't like it (whips his tail), but will stay there for a bit when I do. He eats a little bit of veggies but not much. Droppings are almost non-existent and very dry, but then he's not eating much either. Just before this all started his droppings were very large with a fair amount of water, but when I researched this a lot of postings said that can be normal and just mean they are well hydrated.

Two days ago he was eating quite well from the tongs and was a bit more alert, so I gave him quite a few crickets, but he still has hardly pooed so I'm concerned he is now going to get backed up. Tried a bath and rubbing his belly but no luck. also, I can feel lumps on his belly, but more along the sides. I though it was undigested crickets, but not so sure. He feels like he is losing weight as well. He's been going along great, getting bigger and bigger, and now this. Not sure what to do - poos aren't big enough to take to get tested. Last time I tried that with small dried poo when he was a baby and this happened, they said they couldn't do anything with a sample like that. I think I will go get some more electrolyte paste from them though, as that is I think what saved him last time (fed through syringe).

Any other ideas? Should I remove the hide? I think he's spending way too much time there and is too cold, but if he's scared and has no place to hide that probably wouldn't be good for him either.

Thanks

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How old is Blaze?
Could you review his tank setup with us, such as lighting, temperatures, etc for us? The temperatures, are they taken with either a digital probe or temp gun? The best basking ranges are 95-110 with a cooler end of 78-82.
Which UVB are you using?
Have you changed anything in the room at all that could be stressing him?

It sounds like he has some type of behavior issues going on. If he is around 6 months or a little older he could be going through a hormonal phase which most of the males go through.
You can remove the hide if he is spending too much time in there. Be sure he does have somewhere he can go or get behind if needed.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[BlazesGrandma]

Hi Tracie,

The setup is a 4x2x2 melamine enclosure with sliding glass doors, similar to Crossfire. There is a 36" double T8 tube fixture starting at one end, leaving about 12" with no UVB at the cool end. the fixture has a Reptisun 10.0 bulb as well as a daylight 5500 bulb. It is positioned just off-center, slightly more toward the back wall. Behind it in the warm corner is a slightly tilted halogen flood bulb. also on the warm end is a RHP which is on a thermostat. I have the probe dangling just behind the rocks that are his basking area, so he can't lay on it, and measure the ambient temp as opposed to the basking spot temp. I do have digital thermometers at each end of the enclosure, and have verified the temps using a temp gun:

Warm end on floor: usually around 87-91 F
Basking spot: 110-114 F
Temps in other areas, depending on height( i.e. log, rocks, etc): 94-98 F
Cool end Floor: 79-82 F
Night Temp: RHP will kick in if it goes below 70 F

Substrate is tile, and he has several big rocks (basking spot) and some smaller flat ones he can dig at. He has a fake log hide where he sleeps and has been spending most of his time since this started.

Nothing had changed in his enclosure or how or what he was being fed. I took him to the vet on Friday just to make sure he was OK and the vet said he didn't look too bad or even that dehydrated, which I was worried about. He looked in his mouth (and got bit) and all was fine there. I have given him some electrolyte paste mixed with water that they gave me last time.

So today I did a thorough cleaning of his enclosure as it was that time anyway, and strangely enough he got more active after I put him back in. Things are changed around quite a bit, and he was digging and going everywhere - I would say even more active than before. Could he have been bored? He even finally had a small poo right on the rock I just cleaned, and then ate a couple of crickets from the tongs. Doesn't look all that bad. He does seem to have lost a little weight though.

 

[BlazesGrandma]

Forgot to mention his age. He was very tiny when we got him in June, so likely he is around 7-8 months old.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Everything looks great in your set up, no problems there. It sounds nice & bright, too. You could maybe try decreasing his basking spot to 95-110 as sometimes when they get a little older they prefer it just a little less hot for basking.
It may just be that he is trying to go into brumation & just not sure what to do. This will be his first one & many don't know what to do or aren't sure what to do during that time.
Has he had a black beard?
Yes, they can definitely get bored, absolutely. How often do you get him out to run & play around the house?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[BlazesGrandma]

He hasn't really been showing signs of stress except when he freaks out about the sliding glass doors. He definitely doesn't like them! Just has not been acting like himself, between the not eating (because he was such a pig) and hiding more. As for the temps, the vet thought he may be affected by the cooler temps so he suggested upping the temp, but I haven't done that. He was spending so much time on the cool side I thought maybe he was trying to get away from the heat. Even when he wasn't hiding he was in that end. I thought they didn't brumate until around a year old, but there is so much conflicting info I really don't know.

He was still hiding this morning when I left for work but my daughter said he has been very active since he came out, running all over and digging, licking, etc. I think he likes the changes to the layout. Moved the rocks around, changed out his log (I have two and swap them out when cleaning, and that one is his favorite), and I think the position change in his rocks will decrease the basking spot temp a little bit. I have to check on that when I go home.

I'll relax more if I see him eat a bit more, because it's not like he's replacing those crickets with veggies. He eats a bit of greens but not a lot, and he was gaining weight nicely but I can tell he's lost some.

 

[BlazesGrandma]

When I went home for lunch my daughter has just finished bathing him as he had a little poo (yay!) and made a mess. While she had gotten his bath ready she had put him into his "feeding" bin and once again he didn't touch any of the crickets that were in there, but after the bath I was able to get him to eat several from the tongs while he was in his enclosure. He seemed content there, but he stopped at maybe 9 or 10 crickets, where before he would eat 20-30 of that size in one meal. Still though, things are looking up compared to last week.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

They can brumate as young as 6 months, actually. Not all of them do, but some will.
At least he did eat something for you though, that is some improvement. Perhaps lowering the basking temperatures would help out some for him.
He could be stressed also, not being able to slow down to brumate. Sometimes, we have to let them do what they are going to do. I had to do that with one of ours. He brumated or was trying to at 6 months & I tried to keep him from it but he started losing weight. As soon as I let him go down to rest, his weight stabilized & he finished growing when he came out.
It sounds like changing his layout has helped, too & that he likes it.
Have you tried feeding him out on the floor/carpet?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[BlazesGrandma]

Hi,

So last night for supper he ate about 30 crickets, hand-fed with the tweezers, and ate a little bit of the electrolyte/water mixture. He stayed out on his rocks, cactus, and log until about 8:00 PM (his lights go off at 9:00 PM). This morning when I put his water and greens in, I could see him through one of the holes in his log and he was awake, head up and eyes wide open. Last week he would be lying with his head down and eyes closed or almost closed hours after lights-on. So I think he's OK. I haven't really touched the temps, aside from the basking temp which happened due to my re-positioning of his rocks.

Thanks for the advice - sometimes you just need reassurance. I'm so afraid of losing him. We all love him, but he's my daughter's pet and she struggles with anxiety and depression and if we lost him it would be awful.

 

[BlazesGrandma]

Another question:

I went home today for lunch and it looks like the most he moved was from under his log to under his blankie, which means between his hide log and the back wall, with the blankie over top. He often sleeps there as well. Anyway, if this is brumation, is there any concern about not getting enough calcium to prevent MBD?

Thanks again.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I completely understand, it is very stressful not knowing for sure. It sounds like he was lazy today!
Be sure that he does come out in the next day or so to bask so he can be sure to digest his food. That is the main thing, not to let them go down really hard with food in their tummies since when they get cooled down they don't digest.
You are doing great!
When they slow down, their body's calcium stores that have already been laid down normally stay stable since the metabolism is slown down for preservation of fluids, etc during brumation.
As long as he has had ample time to get plenty of UVB & calcium during the first phase of his life, he will be fine for a couple of months if he does go in & out of brumation.

Keep us posted on Blaze. That is such a sweet name.

Tracie

 

[BlazesGrandma]

My daughter called me earlier and said she was worried so she took him out of his hiding spot (he wasn't sleeping) and put him on his basking rock. And then she called again about an hour ago to tell me he took a flying leap from his branch (bottom part, thank goodness) to the glass doors. He's been going up to the doors a lot looking out, scratching, etc. I guess he really wants out for a bit! She had already tried to take him out but he kept prepping to jump to the floor so she had put him back in. I'll let him out for a bit tonight if he's not hiding. I like letting him out but he's still so small, and there are too many pieces of furniture he can get behind/under, and of course that's what he makes a beeline for.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So he was really wanting out to run around today? At least he was active when she took him out then. Did you get him out also?
It sounds like he is doing fine, just wanting to sleep a bit extra right now. Let us know how things are coming along with Blaze.

Tracie

 

[BlazesGrandma]

When I got home from work he ate a bunch of crickets from the tweezers. I haven't tried again to put him in his feeding bin to see if he would chase them. Lately he wants them hand fed, the lazy boy! I was going to take him out later in the evening but he was hiding so I let him be. When I go home for lunch if he's still hiding I'll remove the hide so he can digest last night's meal.

Here's a pic of the enclosure (he's still sleeping). It looks dark because the room is dark and I used my phone camera, but it's actually pretty bright.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is he doing today?
The tank looks very nice. Yeah, the camera's on phones don't always capture brightness.
Oh my, he likes to be hand fed now? LOL He may be slightly spoiled. LOL
Did he come out when you got home or did you have to take him out of his hide?
He sounds like a character.
Let us know how Blaze is doing!

Tracie