lay/walk weird... opinions?

[zero88]

My dragon, Cornelius, has had a "gimp" since i got him in December when he was around 2 months old. He has always walked funny, rarely held himself upright, lays on top of his legs, spreads his back legs up... sometimes he even flips himself over. He did test positive for parasites in Feb, but was treated & had a clean fecal after treatment. I have been giving reptaid for the scheduled 2 weeks due to diarrhea like BMs. I thought more parasites, but after the two weeks, no improvements in the stools. The vet said it could be a neurological disorder. opinions please?

How old is your dragon? 8ish months old
How long have you had your dragon? december '10
How long is your dragon? 17.75
What is the sex of your dragon? Male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 4' by 2' by 2'
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Shelfliner base with slate tiles
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Mega Ray MVB
How old is your UVB bulb? 1.5 months
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 22 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? yes. 75 watt white
What are the basking temps? 96-102f
What is the cool side temp? 79-86f
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? digital thermometer with probe
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Crickets 2 times a day. Salad: Collard Greens, Turnip Greens, Mustard Greens, Squash
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Every day, late morning, early evening
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Yes, twice a week Herptivite multivitamins and five times a week Zoo Med Repti Calcium (no D3)
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Yes
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Mostly if he's shedding
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? water dish
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? Yes
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No

 

[dylanravenj]

It looks to be neurological to me. I once had a rabbit who did that exact same thing, he had been born with a neurological problem. It may be something else, but I think your vet was right. These disorders usually appear in animals that are overbred. You are taking good care of him though, he looks healthy despite his handicap

 

[zero88]

this problem keeps getting worse. he just kinda drags himself everywhere, but has a very difficult time. today he rolled over 3 times walking to the other side of the tank. my question is: do you think he is in pain? i know he gets frustrated when he cant move because he starts bearding & then just lays there completely still for extended amounts of time.

 

[AHBD]

For some reason he may have a calcium deficiency. The way his arms are weak and twisting. Try getting him in the sun a few times a week, supervised of course, and ask the vet for liquid calcium. If he's not getting sufficient rays from his bulb and no D3, that could be what's happening. You could also order it [ liquid calcium ] from Tracey [Drache613], she's one of the moderators.

 

[coastergirl946]

I was going to say, he looks really alert and healthy (not to mention cute!! :mrgreen: ) for having a handicap. Kudos to you for taking such good care of him.. more pet owners should have your patience and understanding.

Maybe reduce some of the furniture in his viv so he doesn't have so much trouble climbing, and risking flipping over and/or hurting himself?

I'm sure you know this, but just in case you don't..
try to make sure he doesn't flip over on his back. They don't have diaphragms like we do, and can't breathe if they are upside down.

Please keep us updated. He really has a cute face.

 

[zero88]

My little guy has the same trouble. He has Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) which has improved to the extent that it can. Buddy's limbs look very similar to your little guy. When he is trying to hurry, or having more trouble than usual walking, he will do what I call a barrel roll. He does these rolls on the ground and in the water. It usually happens when he employs head movement to help him get where he is going. He does get very frustrated; black beard and tail.Thanks to this forum, I recently got him a Reptisun 10 bulb. I think it is helping some already, in that his coordination is improving a bit.

I, too, have thought mine may have neurological deficits. His arms and legs get jerky and spastic from time to time, though never in a coordinated way, like a seizure.

Best of luck,
Esther

Thank you for responding. I have considered both MBD and calcium deficiency as possibilities. If only he could talk and just tell me whats wrong.

Please keep us updated. He really has a cute face.

Thanks will do

For some reason he may have a calcium deficiency. The way his arms are weak and twisting. Try getting him in the sun a few times a week, supervised of course, and ask the vet for liquid calcium. If he's not getting sufficient rays from his bulb and no D3, that could be what's happening. You could also order it [ liquid calcium ] from Tracey [Drache613], she's one of the moderators.

it very well could be, but since ive had him he has either had reptisun 10.0 with calcium w/d3 or the mega ray (calcium no d3). so if it is calcium deficiency could it be that his body just does not synthesize well? I will try liquid calcium... my local petco started carrying some. im not sure what brand

 

[GlueStick]

I don't think that it is related to MBD (although it could be associated, but I doubt), but rather something related to a genetics or neurological disorder (or both), as the vet described. Looks as if the neurons in his muscles are having trouble firing transmissions correctly, which can be cause by environmental damage or like mentioned, due to bad genetics or diet (but it seems that you are supplementing correctly, which makes me doubt). Has the vet taken blood tests?

Either way, he is certainly a beautiful and healthy looking dragon, and cute! (he has that 'face' =)). Whatever he is diagnosed with, looks like he'll have it for the long haul. I don't think that he is in pain, but flipping over onto his back can be life threatening as someone mentioned above. Maybe moving around his cage furniture so that it is more 'handicap accessible' can help, although it looks as if your setup is pretty nice. Just add more ramps and less edges/cliffs =D and no where high that he can fall off of.

 

[zero88]

This is his setup... im going to go ahead and flatten the terrain a little bit, but he never really climbs above the second step.

This is pretty much as far as he goes. i think its partial lethargy as well, but i dont judge

This is What I'm Scared Of!!! i have come home from work twice to find him like this

This is a face pic for all of you

 

[AHBD]

That's a big beautiful tank ! As far as what is wrong with your dragon, all 3 suggested potential problems are related....calcium deficiency, MBD and neurological problems,[ which can be caused by the first problem]....calcium deficiency. Have you read the sticky on Mega ray bulbs ? There were problems with it, and I'm not sure what they were, but since you have one, and it is at such a distance [ 22" ] then he would have received no D3 if the bulb were one of the defective ones which could have caused all 3 problems. And when you had the Reptisun 10.0, was it close enough to him [ about 8-10" ] or was it farther away as well.? Calcium absorption is crucial to neuro / muscular / skeletal development, in fact to nearly every function of the body. I would still suggest some time in the sun, as well as testing your bulb to see the UVB output. I'm pretty sure that that is the problem, calcium not being absorbed.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

If you would like to test your bulb, I would be happy to test your Megaray for you!! If you are interested, please PM me. Thanks!
I think it could be a combination of several things, also. Has he always had this problem of flipping over?
He is a normal morph, so I am unsure whether it would be so much inbreeding or not, but still possible. The normal morphs tend not to be inbred like the higher end colors, & other morphs, etc.
Some just cannot absorb calcium well, either for some reason or another.


Tracie

 

[zero88]

Thanks Tracie, the bulb is one of the new fixed megarays. there has been no film or yellowing of the bulb.

He has not always flipped over, but hes had balance problems and seizures since i got him. One thing i read said too big of prey can do this, and that is my reasoning behind it. when i got him the was eating "medium sized crickets" and we wasn't even two months old! so i switched him back to smalls, but it may have been too late. I hate pet stores.

 

[zero88]

and it is at such a distance [ 22" ] then he would have received no D3 if the bulb were one of the defective ones which could have caused all 3 problems. And when you had the Reptisun 10.0, was it close enough to him [ about 8-10" ] or was it farther away as well.?

hello,
the megaray is the 160watt so 22" is recomended. when i had the reptisun in was 8" from his basking spot... so my guess is the too large of prey i wrote about it my other response.

 

[MissT]

What wattage is the megaray? It seems very far away as AHBD suggested! Has the flipping over got worse since you changed to the megaray? if it is calcium absorption problems then liquid calcium could help that- I use it with my beardie with MBD and his balance already seems to be improving.

EDIT- we must have posted at the same time so ignore the first half of my comment!

 

[MissT]

Also, I don't believe the new megarays are sorted...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=121986&start=615

 

[zero88]

i will try to take a video of him doing it & post a link