Is my laybox right? Help!!

[traceyb73]

I have a 16 month old beardie who is in the process of laying her second clutch. (They are infertile.) The first one (4-1/2 weeks ago) was a complete surprise. I took her to the vet because she was acting weird and I wanted to make sure she was ok. She has been to the vet at least 4 times since the spring...I am a very neurotic beardie mom. lol Zoey is not only my first beardie but my first reptile. I asked the vet if she thinks she might have some eggs in her big belly as she was putting weight on very quickly...the vet felt her belly and said she doesn't feel any eggs. Less than 8 hours later Zoey started laying and over a 4 day period she lay a total of 27 eggs!! :shock: I have very little faith in my vet now, I have to say!!

So anyway, about a week ago I started noticing those now familiar symptoms. 2 days ago she began laying her second clutch. Since the first time was a surprise, I had no laybox...except for 3 eggs, she lay them all on me (24 of the 27). She is a bigtime cuddle bug and since we cuddle each night, she was kind enough to wait for me. lol Now, since I know the eggs are there and ready to come out, I put together a lay box this morning. Like I said, I am clueless about all this. I'm not sure if I did this right, so let me run this by you. Any input, comment, suggests, etc are more than welcome!

I took one of those big tupperware storage containers and put approx. 40 lbs. of play sand in there. I slowly mixed in a total of about 6 quarts of hot water to warm it. I dug a couple "tunnels" and/or holes (whatever you want to call it). Since she lay an egg on me while I was getting this ready, I thought maybe if I put it in one of the holes she would get the idea. She just looked at me like I was nuts. lol (I get that alot. ) I just took it back out. When I first put this together I attached her light to the side of the container to help keep the sand warm but since she was a little beardie statue, I took the whole thing out in the sun and my daughter is sitting with her as I type this. In the past 2 days she lay about 10 eggs...one every now and then. But last night she got into "pooping position" and without any effort, 2 eggs came out, then poop so I know they are ready. She is still wanting to lay them on me, but I want to do this right. So, since she has been in there, she hasn't moved but I can see the eggs moving closer to her vent. She's not a huge beardie so I can see where they are. How long do I leave her in there? Have I done this right? Any comments are great and humoring me is welcome too. LOL

Incase anyone asks, yes, I am giving her calcium. When we were at the vet they gave me some prescription strength liquid calcium and I give that to her daily. Since we were there last month and I realized she was full of eggs, I've been giving her a little more than what they told me to give.

Her weight that day we were at the vet, when she was full of eggs (Aug. 23rd), was 450 grams and I'll quote what the label says for the calcium they gave me. "Calcium Glubionate #4 ml - give .1 cc by mouth daily." And yes, I was giving her calcium daily from the time I got her (she was 8 weeks old).

Thank you all for taking the time to read my novel (lol) and thanks in advance for any words of wisdom (Zoey thanks you too!).

Have a great weekend!!

Tracey and Momma Zoey

 

[AHBD]

Hi Tracey [ and Zoey ! ] It sounds like she's going to lay them in her nest box...when you say that you can see them closer to her vent, you mean that you can see them piling up behind her ? It usually takes between 45 minute to 2 hours but she is one of those that may have a few random ones to lay even after she comes back out. Just let her decide to come out after she's done....if she's just laying there after 2 or 3 hours, definitely get her out to check + see if she's just bluffing, but it sounds like she's laying now. It's interesting to watch them cover up their nest after laying. Most dragons take great care to use both front + back legs and even their chin area to push + smooth the sand. Some silly girls just come out and say " I've worked hard enough and must be on my way " Lol and leave the hole uncovered, but MOST females will cover them up.

 

[traceyb73]

Hi Tracey [ and Zoey ! ] It sounds like she's going to lay them in her nest box...when you say that you can see them closer to her vent, you mean that you can see them piling up behind her ? It usually takes between 45 minute to 2 hours but she is one of those that may have a few random ones to lay even after she comes back out. Just let her decide to come out after she's done....if she's just laying there after 2 or 3 hours, definitely get her out to check + see if she's just bluffing, but it sounds like she's laying now. It's interesting to watch them cover up their nest after laying. Most dragons take great care to use both front + back legs and even their chin area to push + smooth the sand. Some silly girls just come out and say " I've worked hard enough and must be on my way " Lol and leave the hole uncovered, but MOST females will cover them up.

Zoey finally took to the laybox tonight. We were at my in laws for a while and when we came back, Zoey was being crazy. She was running around like the boogieman was after her and when we put her in the laybox, she dug for about 2 hours nonstop. It's such an amazing thing to see. Keeping in mind this is her second clutch, but the first time with the box (and the first time I'm seeing her lay anywhere else but on me!). She was using all 4 feet and using her head to pack it so she could tunnel underneath and it didn't collapse on her. Finally it got quiet and I just knew what I would find when I went to check on her...she was in a ball (tip of her tail was on her front foot), head facing away from the tunnel, vent and back legs in there and her whole body was wiggling (contracting/pushing). I can't tell at this point how many eggs there are, but I know she is getting them all out. She is so exhausted she's got her chin resting in the sand, eyes closed, in meditation mode yet still contracting. When I said I could see the eggs moving I meant I could see them advancing from her belly to near her vent (this I remember from last time as it was the final step before she lay them all). Last time when she was done laying, she frantically started digging except last time since she lay them on me, she was scratching my hair, my shirt, the couch...whatever she could get her little feet on. lol

My daughter has been taking pics as this process goes along so tomorrow I will try to figure out how to get them up here. Hopefully it will help others who are as freaked out as I have been. I have been so worried that I wasn't going to get the laybox right, but it really does take some moistened sand (not WET, just moist so it's not dry) in a large container (I ended up using a total of about 40 lbs. of play sand). Like I said, I just used a large plastic storage container and clipped her light to the side of it so it stayed warm. I did use my hand to make a couple little holes/pathways for her and she took over. After seeing this, I think I could get her a construction job! lol She's a good little worker! Now once she is done I need to figure out how I'm going to get the sand out of her nose/mouth/ears. I have a feeling she will be pooping sand for a few days.

Thank you for the post, you don't know how much I appreciate it. I'm such a newbie.

 

[AHBD]

That's great, she knew exactly what that big old box of sand was for ! She'll be fine, a good soak will wash her off and she'll probably have a good drink as well Just be sure to give her plenty of time to stay warm in her tank and recuperate and have a good meal. My girls never ingested sand, it just needs washed off after the ordeal. She should be fine.

 

[traceyb73]

That's great, she knew exactly what that big old box of sand was for ! She'll be fine, a good soak will wash her off and she'll probably have a good drink as well Just be sure to give her plenty of time to stay warm in her tank and recuperate and have a good meal. My girls never ingested sand, it just needs washed off after the ordeal. She should be fine.

AHBD, how many beardies do you have? How many girls? I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for holding my hand through this. You have NO Idea how much that helped. Zoey was fine, I am the one who was in nervous breakdown mode. lol

I know I write a novel with each message, but I want to make sure I cover all my bases as I know others will read this thread down the line and I want whoever reads it to know exactly how this works and exactly what they need. I mean, this time yesterday I knew I needed a "laybox", which meant a box and sand, but I really wanted it spelled out...it's why I wrote exactly how much sand I used, exactly how much water. If I can help someone else, I'm happy.

So...it took 2 rinses under the water and 3 baths, but I finally found the beardie underneath. I am one of those those over waters (same reason a plant doesn't survive in my house). Although she is still so young (16 months) but she never even lost a meal during all of this. She ate more yesterday than she has in a long time. lol I thought it was a little strange after everything I've read on the subject, but it's not just me. I think Tracie thinks it's a typo when I told her how much Zoey has been eating, even WHILE an egg would show up behind her, food would be going in the other end. :lol:

I expect not to see any movement from my little punkin for at least 3 or 4 days. Of course I will feed her as much as she will eat, as much water as she wants, but last time she got done laying she didn't move from the same spot in her viv all day and she didn't have sand, since it was a surprise. I am also going to be giving her extra calcium (even though it's a heavy duty dose). Deb (Sweetie) scared me when she told me her little Sweetie broke bones when she jumped off her shoulder (and she caught her at her hip) because the eggs sapped all the calcium out of her little body. I did this last time, and I will do it every time she lays....I will not let her jump from anywhere. She likes to hop off the couch onto the floor. If I could wrap her up in bubble wrap I would!! LOL Better safe than sorry!

I have yet to dig out her (infertile) eggs to get a count. I saw at least 10, plus the 10 she lay every here and there the past few days, so I know the total is going to be 20 minimum. Last time was 27, so that sounds about right. I find it to be mind blowing that this little girl could produce so many. Around 50 eggs in a month. Just wow. :shock: I just hope that this is the last clutch for a while so her body can get a break.

 

[AHBD]

You're welcome ! I know that people get very nervous with egg laying females, and at times things may go wrong, but in general there are few dragons that have trouble. And they are all a little different with their pre laying eating and other behavior, etc. Over the years [ I've owned dragons for 20 years ] I've had ones that would stop eating anywhere from a week before laying, as well as ones that ate right up to the day. Some would lay every egg within an hour in a perfectly dug nest, others dropped a few eggs before + after. But none ever had a problem, even when laying up to 9 clutches. And the sand never hurt them...I've seen owners post that they are afraid of impaction since the dragon is head first in the sand, but they know what they're doing. They're not in there to eat it. So it sounds like your girl is a healthy egg layer and will probably never have any trouble.

 

[traceyb73]

You're welcome ! I know that people get very nervous with egg laying females, and at times things may go wrong, but in general there are few dragons that have trouble. And they are all a little different with their pre laying eating and other behavior, etc. Over the years [ I've owned dragons for 20 years ] I've had ones that would stop eating anywhere from a week before laying, as well as ones that ate right up to the day. Some would lay every egg within an hour in a perfectly dug nest, others dropped a few eggs before + after. But none ever had a problem, even when laying up to 9 clutches. And the sand never hurt them...I've seen owners post that they are afraid of impaction since the dragon is head first in the sand, but they know what they're doing. They're not in there to eat it. So it sounds like your girl is a healthy egg layer and will probably never have any trouble.

Wow, 20 years? That is amazing!! My poor, tired brain just keeps going back to one thing...9 CLUTCHES? My god, Zoey would do fine but I don't know if I would survive that. LOL

Is there any way at all to know if there is another clutch coming before her belly gets big? I mean if anyone knows, you will! Would something show up even on an x-ray?

I am so new to this that I was relieved last month after she lay her clutch that I thought this was all over and done. I was talking to Tracie and she said "clutch" and I had to ask if it meant what I thought it did. I've been a nervous wreck since. lol I am still doubling the prescription dosage of calcium that they vet gave me, just to be safe...not forever but for a while.

I wasn't going to make a laybox this time as last time (being a surprise) she lay them all on me. But when she went to poop a couple nights ago and 2 eggs came out without any effort, I knew I had to do something. The most awe inspiring thing for me with the laybox was watching her, as she was burying them, go into this...almost looked like a robot...where she would turn around to push sand back on them and she had this strangest look on her face. It was like she wasn't a living thing, but something that required batteries. Then she would turn around and pack sand on them, just to do it all over again. When she wasn't looking I would push a little extra sand in there to help her move it along. :roll: Helicopter beardie mom thing, you know.

I really am shocked that as much as she licked the sand and got it up her nose she seems to be fine. It really did take quite a bit of time to get all the sand off her, especially her head.

Morale of the story I guess, is that it's mother nature at her finest. Yesterday it was a beautiful day here (nice and warm, sunny) so between my daughter and I we got her plenty of real sun, which she really needed. She was moving around a bit (which really surprised me) but then she just crashed.

Do you prefer females, or it's just whoever you fall in love with gets a wonderful life?

I know I've said this before but your morale support has meant the world to me...I can't thank you enough.

 

[AHBD]

I really don't prefer male or female, I love both equally but females are special because of what they go through when they lay eggs...as you witnessed it yourself, the instinct is so strong they seem to be in a trance as they lay + cover the eggs. You do want to make sure she gets plenty of basking time since proper heat is a factor as well as UVB for calcium metabolizing. And you don't need a vet visit to see if she's developing more eggs. Just be on the watch every 3 weeks [ average ] for the bigger belly and/or restlessness. Now that you have the lay box, just pop her in there if she gets to looking like she might lay. She seems to pop them out for you as a fair warning.

 

[traceyb73]

I really don't prefer male or female, I love both equally but females are special because of what they go through when they lay eggs...as you witnessed it yourself, the instinct is so strong they seem to be in a trance as they lay + cover the eggs. You do want to make sure she gets plenty of basking time since proper heat is a factor as well as UVB for calcium metabolizing. And you don't need a vet visit to see if she's developing more eggs. Just be on the watch every 3 weeks [ average ] for the bigger belly and/or restlessness. Now that you have the lay box, just pop her in there if she gets to looking like she might lay. She seems to pop them out for you as a fair warning.

You know, it's funny you should say that...I couldn't figure out how to describe the look on her face as she would turn around to push more sand over her eggs. Unless you witness it yourself, you don't really get how amazing it is. Ever since I saw her lay her first egg, I have so much respect for nature and these creatures. I can't even imagine myself not having a beardie .Although at this point I'm not sure I would want to have more than one at a time. I got Zoey when she was 8 weeks old and as fragile as they are when they are young, I think I would rather start with a little one. This way, my opinion, they kind of grow up knowing only you as their mommy (or daddy ). I could see myself though, at some point way in the future, doing rescues. I am home all day (due to a back injury and 2 failed surgeries) and I have alot of love and respect for beardies.

It was a beautiful, warm, sunny day here yesterday in Western New York so Zoey got hours and hours of real sun. The timing was perfect for her. I have mentioned that we have alot of cuddle time, but that is only first thing in the morning when I warm her with my body heat then give her her calcium, feed and water her. Then at night when she starts to fall asleep in her viv (only after she's had an entire day in there) we cuddle until bedtime (usually about an hour). If Zoey had her way we would cuddle all day. lol I know they are not all like this, they are as different as people, this I understand, but I am very fortunate to have such a loving little beardie as my first. She's spoiled me and made me fall madly in love.

After she lays I do make sure to make her viv warmer than usual. I do want to make sure that she is absorbing the calcium. I was lucky to have gotten the prescription strength stuff when I was at the vet last month and like I said, since she started laying the first time, I'm giving her more than the dosage they recommended, especially since when they gave it to me they didn't know she was carrying eggs.

I am very picky about how often I change her UV (yes, the reptisun 10, even though every pet store tries to sell me something different every time!! I always lecture them. lol). I know they are good for 6 months, but I change them anyway around 4-1/2-5 months. Just for my own peace of mind. I also always make sure I have extra light bulbs on hand. When I go to the light store (since they are so hard to find now), I always stock up plus they are so cheap, might as well, you know? I also have 2 CHEs. I had a 100 watt, but a couple months ago I got a 60. I don't want it burning out in the middle of the winter! When I have a couple extra bucks I go to Cheryl's site (bd.or) and buy her extra probiotics (I have enough for years. lol), acidopoliz (I always spell it wrong. lol), the pink cleaner (it's the only one I use and I also add some in the washer when I wash her blankets...on sanitary cycle of course, I use it to clean out the cricket keeper too. It's the only thing that gets rid of that awful smell! ), I like to keep extra syringes on hand too cause I tend to lose things. lol Between all of this stuff and her blankets, etc, she has more "stuff" than I do! She has her own cabinet in the bathroom for everything and with all the meds I've had to buy over the past year (between the vet visits and the stuff I bought from Cheryl) and syringes, etc, she has an entire cabinet plus a drawer!! Not to mention I have a probe thermometer that is always in her basking spot (I bought 3 over the past year, just to make sure they are right. lmao) but I bought a temp gun just to make sure I know it's right. I wish I had kept track of how much I have spent. lol I'm not complaining by the way, just want to make sure I have all my bases covered!) If only I could claim her as a dependent on my income tax. :laughhard:

Zoey is funny about the laying eggs before she is ready to get them all out. You're right, one will show up out of nowhere like she telling me it's time again. lol I can't reuse the same sand can I? I guess I'll have to start stocking up on sand since I have a feeling this is going to be happening alot. lol She is only 16 months old and this is her second clutch already. Do you remember what your youngest egg layer was? I figured I wouldn't see any before she was 2 years old.