Is my dragon semi-brumating?

[Cinnasticks]

Hey there everyone,

I have two juvenile beardie ladies that are both around 7 months old now judging by their growth. I got them back in March and they've tripled in size and are now about 11 inches from nose to tail tip. I keep them in a home made set up about 60gallons in size roughly (turned an old bookshelf nook into a dragon den). Their space is more vertical, with a base level that has tiles, a "swim pool", and their cave hide. Yes, I keep my two ladies together. I had tried separating them and the smaller one did not do very on her own. I have had them together ever since, and they were both thriving and packing on the weight.

I went out of town for a week a month ago and came back, and my bigger dragon lady hasn't been doing too well since. My fiancee had been watching them and they were a bit underfed, but otherwise healthy. Niddhog finished up her last shed when I got back, I stuffed them full of crickets and spinach/dandelions/mustard greens, and within the week they were both back to being happy and fat. AFTER THAT Niddhog started to stay in her hide all the time. I figured out that one side of their tank was getting too hot (it got up to 118F) and adjusted the light set up. She started coming out more frequently after that for a couple of days. At this time she stopped pooping multiple times a day and is now down to one MASSIVE POO a day. Her coloring got VERY DARK--she was a blue bar tiger and now she's mostly grey and blue on top of dull orange, and her hunting drive is almost nonexistant. I figured maybe she was doing a mini brumation, as we turned on the A/C in the house and the room is a little cooler than it was. She no longer hunts for crickets, but greedily eats dubias when I hand feed them to her. She basks out of her cave for maybe 2 hours a day, and spends the rest hiding in her cave. She is usually much cooler to the touch than my other girl, who spends NO TIME inside the hide whatsoever. She's not asleep during the day, just laying there potato-caked. She ignores crickets, will eat a few leaves of greens, and is more than excited to come get her dubias. Otherwise she's been really lethargic, dark of color, and hasn't shed once this past month.

Is she in a mini-brumation? Time to take a fecal to the vet? I don't have a scale so I haven't monitored her weight, but her body condition has dropped with the reduced appetite. She's eating about 11 medium dubias a day (1/2-3/4").

 

[traildrifterphalanx]

Greetings!
I do apologize if I come off harsh, but regardless of how they seem together, they are not both equally thriving. This is your choice if you insist on keeping them together, but they are both WAY better off being separated, both mentally and physically. I cannot think of one experienced keeper on this board that would ever recommend housing them together. Again I apologize that this is the first thing I'm addressing and really pushing, but if you have the means to do so, please separate them. If one is more dominant, move the dominant one into the new enclosure. The little one is likely already stressed and fearful and does not need the added stress of a new home.

Second thing I wanted to note is for 7 months they sound a bit small. 11" is about the size of maybe a 4-5 or so month old dragon, so their ages may be off. Regardless, they are much too young to brumate even if they are in fact 7mo old and on the small side, so I believe there is something else at play.
I would recommend going over your setup with us (lights, substrate, etc, photos always help!) and a vet visit may be in order. If she is physically losing weight that is a cause for concern, but a scale would help confirm any weight changes, of course. A baby dragon that young should be bright eyed and bushy tailed until the lights go off, so something is up.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Regarding typical beardie sizes at 7 months old (juvenile) , my gang at this age
Puff (M) 214.2g
Rex (F) 262.3g
Peppa (F) 293.2g
Toothless (M) 197g

Please separate the pair , even though some people claim they keep two females housed together very harmoniously, this is very very rarely successful and nearly always ends in tears with dragon eventually attacking and maiming , even killing the other.
Only species of beardied dragon this works well with are Rankins , they are known for being social and living well in breeding groups.

60 Gallons is fine for a REARING tank, but will be very tight for two adult beardies and very stressful. I strongly recommend setting up a second 60 gallon viv for the short term , move the larger of the two into it, she will be the dominant and can probably stand a week or so of relocation stress better her smaller tank companion. This size viv will be OK until they each reach about 18 months old.
Longer term no less than a 120 Gallon viv for EACH is going to be needed for their forever homes , is very common for vivs to be stacked in this situation ( I know of keepers / breeders who have 4high stacked vivs all 4ft x 2ft x about 2ft tall ).

I believe she is avoiding her companion who is dominating her and has claimed the basking spot as her exclusive territory .... beardies are not sharers when it comes to important resources...This sounds very much like dominance issues and the only solution is separation. Both will be a lot happier in their own private vivs and not even having to look at each other all day every day.

So will help if you tell us details of your feeding schedule and other husbandry aspects .
Might be a very easy fix .

Photos of the tank and showing substrate and lighting and of the beardie will help too. Use XIMG button to upload photos from your computer.

How heavy are they both ?
...... recommend weighing them regularly (weekly say)?

Can you give us a good rundown on the setup and schedules (light and feeding) :
TEMPERATURES ?
........daytime warm zone
........overnight
........basking spot
........ how are you measuring your temperatures ?
TOO COLD = SLEEPY DRAGON

UVA AND UVB ADEQUATE ?
........is the uv rated AT LEAST 10%UVB ?
........is it a COMPACT (curly globe & WATTAGE ?
or a T8 tube ?
or a T5 tube ?
or an MVB ?
the brand (not all UVB compacts and tubes are created equal or as well , many shops sell their own brand (Zilla, All Living Things, Reptile-One, Nat Geo , Natural Selections (in green boxes) which are cheap Chinese clones made very cheaply using very poor quality quartz glass and cheap phosphors ==> very poor UV spectrum produced incl UVC band and bad parts of the UVB band)
........is it covered (in a domestic fluorescent light fitting )? == BAD
........is it sitting ontop a mesh top ? == BAD
........how far from basking spot ?
too far and the UVA and UVB WILL BE TOO DILUTE.
UVA FLUX TOO LOW where dragon is ==> a very lethargic dragon w/ a very poor apetite just in the short term ,
and neurological problems if this persists ,
not to mention MVB if UVB flux too low long enough with inadequate metabolisation of dietary calcium or inadequate intake out calcium

TANK
size (L x W x H) and construction , photos of the setup are often helpful .

SUBSTRATE ?
........is it sand ? == BAD AND IF CALCISAND this is EXTREMELY BAD/LETHAL
........is it particulate ? == BAD

TOO SHORT A PHOTOPERIOD (lights are not kept on long enough each day , will make beardie think it is winter , recommend at least 14 HRS PER DAY)

FEEDING SCHEDULE (I recommend at least 2 hrs lights/heat on before first live feed and after last feed of the day), at 7 months old they should each be getting two live insect meals per day.

....... when are you offering live feeder insects ? what are they ? how big are they ?
....... when are you offering greens and other veg ? what are you offering ?

What season is it (there where you live) ?

and

weather can have an impact on your beardie's behavior, so what had the weather been like in the problem period ?