is it really not safe?

[Kamihara]

another thing,
our beardies have NEVER been in the wild. They dont know what its like or not. They are raised in tanks and on the subsrate you give them so they dont know the difference. Yes some beardies like different substrates than others, it doesnt necessarily mean that it feels "natural" to them.

I agree and disagree with that, they are still desert animals regardless if they have been captive raised. we as hobbyist caring for them want to mimic their natural enviroment as best as possible, their natural enviroment is dessert area (rocky,sandy terrain). the way I see it is if you were to live in a room with just solid tile, it would start to negatively effect you after a while, same thing with BD's IMO. they need the change and if you do it right then I don't see a problem. if i keep the sand clean, feed them in a seperate container, give them their baths, keep temps stable and in the ranges needed the risk should be minimized although there is always a risk with everything, if i do my part properly, they will be healthy regardless of being on sand or not. that is just my opinion.

Thats impossible. How do you keep something like sand clean? Just because you can't see poop mixed all over it, doesn't mean its not there. Have you tested your bd for intestinal parasites? I'm guessing not, because if you have gone through the cleaning process for a month while you're treating, you'd never want to keep sand in your tank.

ok and do you have proof that you can't keep sand clean or are you just stating your opinion that you can't?

 

[jarett_harrison]

seriously, stop fighting. If you need to talk to someone about an issue with their care, PM them. we dont need this on the open forums. I hate fighting. So please quit it. We have PM's for a reason.

 

[GlueStick]

well today I changed to half tile and half washed sifted play sand from home depot. I am new with this but I have kept many other animals and I have a SW fish tank that I have been mantaining for many years. ( fish arent like reptiles but im talking about the mantainance part of it). I give my beardies a bath 1-2 times a week, I feed them in a seperate container outside of their enclosure, so the only way they will eat sand is when they walk around and check out there tank, but they usually just relax on their basking branch, and then i take them out to play for a little, take them outside, then they go back in and bask some more then they go to bed ( and my male usually likes to curl up on the floor so the sand will be better for him to dig and make it more comfortable IMO). In their natural enviroment they are not on all hard surface, it is a mixture of different sizes of rocks, sand and hard packed sand. I really don't see what the problem is as long as you keep the sand clean and keep the beardies eating healthy. Imagine if you lived on a hard floor your whole life, they need different textures and surfaces. not just tile. thank you for posting though, since you have the experience, what do you do differently with them on sand then you would on a hard floor?

That is how I went about the idea of sand. As long as you are aware of the risks, maintain and care for what is needed, and do so at the appropriate ages and length then their shouldn't be a problem. I've had my beardy on the sand for a year now and I haven't run into the problem of RI or impaction, mainly because I take the extra precaution of feeding all food items in a bowl over a tile (like salads and worms) and crickets in a seperate container from the tank. I also do clean up any messes as soon as they occur, or when I am able, and sift weekly. Overall, he usually just stays on his rock wall or basking spot (maintained at around 103-108F), and his humidty is at about 45%. The only time he really goes onto the bottom with the sand is if he feels like digging or, occasionally sleeping (a great brumation favorite). And he's a HORRIBLE, INACURATE licker. It's kind of funny =P because my other beardy is so, completely acurate with what she licks!

To give you an idea of what my tank looks like, here it is, only I now have a different log and, I use sand and a few tiles:

very cool enclosure you have! thanks for posting. what is the "ratio" of sand to tile you use? more sand and a couple pieces of tile or half and half?

just so you all know, I do apreciate the opinions and advice given, i didnt post this to make an arguement about sand, my main thing was to understand why it is still so unsafe if you take the precautions and do it correctly.

I think it would be 90% sand and 10% tile, for where he eats, because as you can see, I haven't much floor space for tile, haha! Most of the sand is under my rock wall, where he sleeps. So, he rarely goes down there anyhow XD I should take a new pic of his enclosure.

 

[Kamihara]

seriously, stop fighting. If you need to talk to someone about an issue with their care, PM them. we dont need this on the open forums. I hate fighting. So please quit it. We have PM's for a reason.

who is fighting? If someone is going to say that it is impossible to keep sand clean, then it would be nice to see some proof that they can make that statement accurately. having a conversation is not fighting. who would you like me to PM to talk to this about? aren't there forums for the purpose of talking to others about topics, in this case, bearded dragons? I have looked through many threads on this site of enclosures, ALOT of them have sand as a substrate, within the thread you don't see anyone critisize them for it, so what's the problem? a couple people in this thread say they use it and say if mantained properly it is fine.

 

[GlueStick]

Sand as a substrate is a heated topic regardless -shrug-
I try to point out my own experiences, as not all experiences are necessarily appropriate for another's experiences.
I just hope my advice, and the advice of others have helped YOU make your own decisions, and not necessarily the decisions of others =D
But we see you have done so with the half sand, half tile. You should post a picture!

Aussie is being a brat at the moment. He usually brumates this time of year (for apprx 5-6 months) but I've been giving him baths, which keep him up longer, and he doesn't eat... unless the prey item moves on occasion. He's not losing weight, being like I said, he should be brumating, so I'm not worried =D He's been to the vet for his 'brumation check up' and, all is good. But that's a my momentary blurb on an unrelated subject for you! Hope you enjoyed. =}

 

[THEEwhiteboy]

Just a note I tried tile for my beardie and he seemed to hate it. Didn't really want to walk on it or anything. And yes the temps were good I do HVAC work so I have a very nice temp gun. I put the sand back in and he is all over the place....... I don't get it I'd rather clean the tile. He isn't big at all on licking things so I'm not so worried there and as far as cleaning he gets fresh sand twice a week with a full cleaning of the viv once a week( He is in my bedroom and I can't stand stench). Thats just my experience on the subject. Like I read in an above post its about your dragons habits too.

 

[jarett_harrison]

sand over tile or anything else is a VERY heated topic. I just dont want fighting because then people on this forum end up bickering all thev time. Just trying to keep the forumd freindly.

 

[Livey]

Hi,
i am currently using tile after having sand and he kept eating it.
This is a picture of my viv

as you can see its quite busy and canrt really see much tile(thats cos he is only a baby and i belive he should have alot to play with )

 

[glitch_in_the_system]

Here is my opinion:

Some animals are very active and like to dig. If so providing them the cleanest, safest particle substrate and monitor the situation seems appropriate.

My dragon has been on multiple particle substrates over the years and seemingly hated them all. When she had sand she would avoid being on the sand and instead stayed on the rocks or log all the time. Hence I no longer even consider particle substrates for her.

When I did use particle substrates I battled several complications: when I received my dragon she was impacted from being on calci-sand and being fed meal worms. She started out on reptile carpet. Which was alright be stained easily and was often a pain to clean. Once through the impaction and approximately 12" long Obie was put onto crushed walnut shells because I fell for the false advertising of it being completely digestible. I nixed the walnut shells after learning of the serious health risks it imposed. Then I went to washed and sifted playsand. As I said before she avoided it like the plague. Not sure why. Then I switched to loam when the Germans introduced the board to the idea. She didn't seem to mind it but it was hard to keep clean and the area around the tank always smelled like damp soil. So I switched once more to bed a beast and dealt with a mite infestation that popped up almost immediately after it was introduced. I tried shredded pine bedding after it was recommended by someone I knew who had a blue tongue skink. Obie then got a yellow fungus infection which was a long tough battle. I gave up on all particle substrates at that point and switched to shelf liner which worked great but I didn't like having to replace it because of stains from the fecal matter and having to remove the whole thing from the tank. After building Obie's new 4x2x2 I installed slate tiles which have been wonderful. She seems to love it, it looks cool and clean, is easy to clean, and holds heat well. The only problem I have had with Slate is that it can actually overheat because its dark color absorbs the light/heat.

 

[Rockie]

I use mostly play sand with a piece of slate in the corner where her food is. She likes to dig in the sand and has never had any issues. I use a small litter scooper to clean up her poop. ( I'm home most of the time and am able to clean it up while it is still wet and clumped).
When we first got her (over 2 years ago when she was 1 yr), she had parasites and had to go without the sand until she was cleared (healthy) - she hated it.... I think alot of it comes down to what you like, what your beardie likes, what your beardies habits are.... everyone is different.

 

[DragonsInKansas]

seriously, stop fighting. If you need to talk to someone about an issue with their care, PM them. we dont need this on the open forums. I hate fighting. So please quit it. We have PM's for a reason.

who is fighting? If someone is going to say that it is impossible to keep sand clean, then it would be nice to see some proof that they can make that statement accurately. having a conversation is not fighting. who would you like me to PM to talk to this about? aren't there forums for the purpose of talking to others about topics, in this case, bearded dragons? I have looked through many threads on this site of enclosures, ALOT of them have sand as a substrate, within the thread you don't see anyone critisize them for it, so what's the problem? a couple people in this thread say they use it and say if mantained properly it is fine.

I think if you're willing to do a complete sand change and clean the tank everytime they poop and feed in a seperate bin then sand can be fine. It's just that most people find this gets old realllll fast.

I have 4 tanks that are entirely tile and 1 that is 3/4 tile 1/4 sand