im breeding

[Derek32]

i hav an incubator, and i have ALOT of 20g long tanksd woith uvb and heat bulbs all ready to go. ive prepared lol. i have a job that payes 10$/h and i will have anough money, i breed my own food and if you buy from minimealworms.com you save ALOT of money and hassle. those worms are great once dusted and everything, crickets are a pain. i completely raised my red orange tranz on them and shes growing lke a wee. yeah i knew about the trans to trans. sunny is the only leatherback but i got a male today in the mail. he will be the red.orange trans's mate next year. hes a red hypo leather 50% het trans. he was 230$ shipped got him from texasdragonlab. also, im aware of the female being underweight thts why im not really urging them to breed too juch at the moment. the ;lady i got her from wasnt the best breedeer. not even a nice lady. she blamed me for bad husbandry when shes the one sending out not too healthy lizards. i sent her a PERFECTLY FINE red flame X citrus in a trade for this female i have now. she had told me the female died 5 days later or something like that. the beardie had been checked by a vet before i shipped her out and i packaged her up perfectly. i was going to offer the lady a refund or something until she went NUTS on me accusing me of sending her a bad dragon and saying she was going to call the cops. meanwhile i had her female she sent me that was very underweight, not eating, had diahrea, not very active jsut layed there and wouldnt pick up her head. within like 2 weeks i had put some weight on her and shes doing fine now shes actually up around 400 now. she was 382 wen i weeighed her a few weeks ago. she will be retired after one more clutch, i just think she should live her life out peacufuly now, she even looks liek shes been bred alot and kept poorly. bent toes,upside down nails, all her toes are croked or missing the nails, her color is JUST comiing back to a nice bright yellow she was a very dark brown. so she deserves to be just let live without being bred for the rest of her life one more clutch though.

 

[DragonsNDoodles]

Hey, I just noticed that you're selling your male Snowball on faunaclassified. You mentioned in your last post that you want to trade him for a silkie?

I just wanted to let you know that you should not breed silkies. They can get very injured during the act of mating and can pass on some really bad genetic mutations to their offspring.

Of course, if you're just looking for a pet, they're great and I hope you enjoy it if you get one. They do require their own tank since they're so delicate and can be hurt easily, and they can be burned by normal UVB light and get overheated by normal basking temps. They don't shed easily or well, and can require lotion.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Hey, I just noticed that you're selling your male Snowball on faunaclassified. You mentioned in your last post that you want to trade him for a silkie?

I just wanted to let you know that you should not breed silkies. They can get very injured during the act of mating and can pass on some really bad genetic mutations to their offspring.

Of course, if you're just looking for a pet, they're great and I hope you enjoy it if you get one. They do require their own tank since they're so delicate and can be hurt easily, and they can be burned by normal UVB light and get overheated by normal basking temps. They don't shed easily or well, and can require lotion.

What genetic mutations?? They are simply the super varitation of the leatherback which is an extremely stable mutation.

 

[DragonsNDoodles]

I'm sorry! I worded that badly, didn't I. The leatherback mutation is stable genetically.

I meant to express my concern that a silkie should not be bred because it requires such special and delicate care physically. In my opinion, and I know it's only my opinion, silkies should only be pets and should be produced only by experienced and prepared breeders by pairing two leatherback dragons.

I shouldn't have said anything about the genetics- I meant physical traits. I don't feel like this person is quite ready to handle the care that one silkie would require, much less lots of baby silkies.

Sorry! You're completely correct as usual, Tom!!

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Im wrong quite often...lol, but TY.I was wondering if I missed something.
You are correct that breeding a silkback has its own set of complications to it.

 

[DragonsNDoodles]

Lol, nope, you didn't miss anything. I was just trying to multi-task and my coherence and word choice suffered greatly! Stupid poetry research paper... I wish I could just surf the internet all day.

 

[cowgirlsblues]

I agree with the other posters, your animals and you need to be ready before you breed anything. You need to know what you are breeding for and toward, you need to have many things in place before jumping in to something like this.

I have shown, bred and raised australian shepherds (specifically miniature and toys) for the last 10 years (i'm 25 now) I can not tell you the amount of money (many thousands) I have invested in my dogs, and I try to BETTER the breed not just ADD TO IT. And even with them (as they are a "rare" breed especially where I live) you can't always find homes for them, you end up having to either keep some, or give them away, and that's a loss financially either from having a puppy you didn't intent to keep or having a puppy you have lots of money invested in given away. And when it comes to these guys there is a LOT more involved in breeding then just putting two animals together. I am very experienced with many exotics (raising, breeding, etc) and breeding beardies is not something I would venture in to at this point (or probably ever!). There is just so much involved and it's not something to be taken on lightly. And I think that you might need to get some more experience, let your animals mature some more, and get your plans in order before jumping in to something like this.
There are so many animals, beardies included that are homeless (that's how we ended up with Draco and Rex) I know a lot of people want to try to "recoop their investment" and breed an animal, or because they think they will make a bunch of money or it will be 'fun', but in reality true breeders who do things right make little if any money, it's very time consuming and draining (physically, mentally, emotionally, etc) and in general it is NOT always the best option or idea.

And P.S. there is still a lot of typos on your website, just FYI.

 

[DragonsNDoodles]

cowgirl- I just sent you a PM and am very very very excited for a response!! I've been looking over your website for a few minutes. Although I'm saddened by your latest blog post (smaller dogs) I'm very excited that you're a responsible breeder.

 

[Derek32]

i was looking for the silkie for only a pet. i know im not ready to care fro a lto of baby silks lol but i can probably handle it with enough practice and research. i keep poison dart frogs and green iguanas and various other types of herps too that arent anywhere near as easy as beardies and so far ive been fine. the reaosn for me tryng to sell or trade my male white is because im trying to get 6 nice breeding quality dragons of the traits i want. im trying to breed leathers, translucents and pretty much anythinh with a lot of color which obviouisely you guys can see why the male white trans isnt going to be a good breeder for me if im going for color. last6 week i recieved my male hypo red leather 50% het trans. he will be raised up from the tiny babys he is and bred to the female red/orange trans het hypo next may. that pairing is set and i do not plan to change it im very much looking forward to those babies they should be beautiful. im also trying to sell or trade the female citrus het hypo but i want her to be more of a pet not a breeder. i cant breed her i feel bad so im going to take her off fauna and try and find her a home so she can be a pet. she jsut has not been outting her weight back on too quickly from her last spawn and she looks like shes been bred pretty hard. i want her to live the rest of her life in peace, no more breedng for her. so if anybody is interested in her pleaee let me know shes 20 inches and a complete sweetheart. lots of personality. im going to the white plains expo april 17th i gope to have the female and the white gone by then and i plan to pick up an adult female for sunny and start looking for another pair. i have one set pair right now but they can not breed until next year. sunny is more than qualified to breed right now but i want to find the rigth female for him and then i need to find another male and female then im done. 3 pairs and then if it all goes well then next year5 ill expand my breeders and get more pairs. if anybody has any adult breedable females please let me know. leatherback wouls be nice but definately not needed since sunny is a leather. maybe a nice red or orange? sunny is from red lines. snowball the male white is up for grabs if anybody is interested also. please message me if you guys have anything thanks

Derek

 

[Nejiwayne]

Well heres my 2 cents cuz i was once filled w the same stupid idea :wink:

Im no math teacher but...
6pairs x 20babies each = 120 (first round of clutches)
120eggs x 4 clutches= +/- 480 baby bearded dragon lives will be in your hands unless youll be culling :roll:
Then say 10 babies to a 20g = u have 48 (20g) tank setups? Or even just 10?

Im no hepetologist but...
Breeding dragons without knowing their exact genetic lineage is irresponsible, deff wont help sell them (at least here) and could weaken the bloodline experienced breeders have been trying to strengthen (even if theyre "cool" colored)

And finaly im not ur mom but...
If you want your dragon to be a pet, dont sell her, and treat her like one.

 

[CourtneyLS]

You really have to consider how much money raising babies costs....well, if you want to give them the best care. Maybe if you're given actual numbers, it will sink in a little more....
For only two clutches, I've spent about $420 on JUST lights, around $140 on the branches so they can bask and be close enough to the UVB, and then the expenses of the multi-cage set-up I have. Sooo, $560 on only lights and branches.
And I spend at least $100 every week on crickets alone(and that's a really good price for the amount of crickets I get...you may not be as lucky to find a great discount) and I only have two clutches.
Then you also have to consider the hours and hours and hours of time spent with them. Preparing tons of greens. Feeding them multiple times a day. Cleaning their cages all the time. Soaking them. Misting them. Handling them (if you want them to be awesome and friendly).

 

[Gail]

I also think you aren't quite ready, at least not for the scale of breeding you are gearing up to. Instead of getting carried away, try raising just one clutch and see how things work out. You can always expand your breeding next year.

I do have some advice though. Keep in mind even though I've never bred, my aunt was a large scale breeder for a few years so I got first hand knowledge of how quick things can get out of hand and the cost involved.

First, you need to be more open to opinions. A $10 a hour job isn't going to be enough for full time breeding, especially once the babies get bigger and start going through greens like little lawn mowers. You will need to feed more then just mini mealworms, I don't care if you have raised your dragons on them. People who are looking to buy quality high end morphs are looking for ones that have the best care and that means a variety of insects. Do yourself a favor, get a couple colonies of red runner roaches going, they breed fast and the babies are small enough for hatchlings.

Make yourself a goal and stick with it. If you want to breed red dragons then get red breeders, don't give in because you find a good deal. Also keep in mind that you don't need a separate male for every female. If you can work out 2 male and 3 females then you will save yourself time, space and money. Extra males end up being a drain on breeders, only keep what you need.

Try and not breed only one type of dragons. Meaning don't produce just trans leathers or only hypos. You want to offer the buyers a choice. When I went looking for a new leather, I had a very difficult time find a nice colored one that wasn't a trans or hypo.

Don't get caught up in new "fads". If you blow your whole budget getting the newest "must have morph" then you could end up being out a lot in the end. This is where having a goal is important.

Don't make up crazy names or claim to have produced a new morph unless you know 100% you have. If that one weird blue baby stays blue into adulthood then you can honestly say its blue. If you sell them all as blues and they turn gray in 4 months, you'll have a lot of ticked customers and bad word of mouth can destroy a breeder.

Get the best breeders you can. If you want colorful babies then you need colorful breeders. Your helga is really plain and if I was searching for a citrus I wouldn't buy a baby from her. She hardly has any yellow and no blue side bars that I can see, those are two traits of a quality yellow citrus.

You really should have a better guarantee too. Live arrival is great but what do you guarantee? would you offer a full refund, a replacement? If offering a replacement, who pays shipping? You need to be specific, buyers look at that. I never buy from anyone who has a vague guarantee, I want to know my purchase is protected.

EDIT, I forgot something:
You need to also have a vet budget. All breeders should have fecals and adenovirus testing before breeding. You also need to plan for emergencies like egg binding or prolapses.

 

[Derek32]

i have said this before, money is no object for me. first of all my father owns a construction company, so i can build asmany cages as i want of any size with little to no cost at all. i built so far all my larger cages and have yet to pay anyhthing. my dad gets the leftover wood for free and gives it to me. and until a year or so from now i will obly have 1-2 breedng pairs. i will have no problerm selling babies i already have a pretty large list of people who are waiting on babies from me. lighting is no problem either, ive got money. i dont really care about making anymoney off of this i dont need to make a profit. i enjoy doing stuff like this and jsut neing able to do it is enough for me. im trying to get the female a new home as a pet not a breeder. since ill be focusing on breeding more im almost definate i can find her a better home for some more 1 on 1 attention. im not saying she cant ever breed again, but she definately should be allowed to rest and regain her weight for a few months first. i have plenty of space, my bedroom s rather large as somebodty had asked earlier and my mother said if i run out of room in my bedroom i can start expanding to a large spare room that is only used for tv and such which is rconnected to my bedroom. i have thought this all through, planned, done my research and everything. i know im set. im aven pretty pre-set. i know i wont have eggs for perobably a month or two but i already got 5 big bags of vermiculite and the incubator is set up and everything already . im mostly right now looking for a nice red female. het hypo or het trans would be nice considering my male is het hypo and het trans(66% hypo 50% trans). like i have said. ive researched, money is not a problem and neither is space. im ready to do this. i have my goals. i have already said im only doing one pairing right now to see how it goes and next year do more. yea its a 104 an hour job but i get quite a bit of money on the side too from doing various things around the neighborhood. i am prepared for them to plow throuigh greens, i have 2 adult 4.5 foot male green iguanas, all they eat are green..and alot of them. one of the other reasons the female helga is not being used is for her color. after her arrival i figured she would get more color but she is either brown and yellow or just solid yellow. if she had more colors i would keep her and bullk her up for a few months and breed her. i am open to suggestions, but only ones that are said nicely. that last post from gail was great and very helpful, thank you. i kniow you guys are trying to help and i cant remember if there were any rude posts here but ive seen people get smashed online

 

[Derek32]

in case it was unclear though. my plans: get a good female for sunny the yellow leather male 50% het trans 66% hethypo. breed them. if all goes well then bump up to 2 breeding pairs. if all still goes well then next may i will hjave 3 pairs once my female red orage trans hethypo and male hypo red leather 50% het trans are old enough to breed. it may have came off as i planned to breed many pairs at once. i plan to go slowly but i do have my plans all set and planned out. so if anybody is interested the female citrus het hypo and the male white trans het hypo are in need of homes. they are not on my list of what im trying to breed for and im trying to focus on breeding right now.

 

[ziggy23]

I don't want to be rude, and I'm sorry if I come off that way, but there was one thing I wanted to point out that hasn't yet.

Your parents aren't going to pay for everything forever. Lets move on from the fact that stuff happens, people lose jobs, get hurt, etc. but in a few years your going to moving out on your own. With the pets you have now, you will have a very difficult time. Very few places if any will let you have that many animals. The ones that do will probably charge you a ton of money for it and/or have other very undesirable traits. Nice apartments are nice because they're very picky about tenants and stuff like this. It can be difficult and expensive to find a place that will even let you have one pet. the average salary of a young adult starting out, it would be extremely difficult to afford to take care of them all and finding the time will be a issue as well especially if you go to college. There are many many adults in this world who had to leave behind or give away their pets when they first moved out on their own because they just couldn't make it work.

just something for you to think about.