I think brumating?

[spikeithard]

So I have a dragon about 10-12 months old. Seem pretty healthy overall. But every since about december its been moping around alot and somewhat on and off his food. since the new years its been just wanting to find a dark corner of the habitat and lay there.. sometmes with its front arm bent backwards in what looks like a uncomfortable position. since then I have had to hand feed it crickets and within the last month or so dubias. everything was fine eating wise up until about 6 days ago. Sure I could put up with the trying to stay away from the lamps... it was still eating so all is good I thought. I used to feed Orion in a feeding bin but changed to hand feeding last few months. But just wont eat now. no interest in hand feeding or in the box.

does this behavior sound like brumation or something else?

Though I should add, he did eat one decent size roach like 3 days ago and then lost interest in anymore. non since then

 

[Claudiusx]

Hi there,

Can you go over somethings with your setup first so we can rule out improper husbandry being the cause of the behavior?

What uvb bulb are you using?
How old is it?
How close can your dragon get to it?

What are the temps in your tank?
What are you measuring these temps with?

What substrate do you house on?
Has your dragon been poo'ing at all?
How often do you dust with calcium/multi?

-Brandon

 

[spikeithard]

Using a 26 watt repti glo UV bulb. the round kind. (yes I know I have read about people against these but the local pet store told me its fine even after saying I want to buy their reptisun brand one)

its about 6 months old now so needing to change soon.

and the dragon can get about 11-12 inches away from it. (pictured below)


temps in there are about low to mid 80s in the far end and about 101-103 or so right under the heat lamp that is about 12-13 inches away. im using a regular round needle thermometer. but I used right beside it another more professional looking needle thermometer and the temps are about the same.

as you can see in my picture, i have two lamps on the top right. the one on the left is UV and the far right is heat. the light on the far left is a regular house bulb for extra light.

after pulling him out from the bottom corner on top of his towel, i placed him on the landing under the heat and tried to hand feed him roaches. looked like he wanted to go at one then when i bent down he took off under neath and curled up into his blanket in the dark bottom right corner.
his eyes are open usually all the time while in the corners but they dont look 'alert'. they are mostly half open and such.

there is sand in the front of it but the rest is tile. he never eats off the sand. He pooped about 4 days ago but it was on the harder side and took him longer than usual to get it all out. Putting calcium on the roaches still.

 

[spikeithard]

just tried feeding him now... been about almost a week since last eating.

I pulled him up and sat him on the heating platform from the bottom dark corner. I got a roach in my fingers and he looked at it for about 2 minutes then made an attempt to grab it... it didnt make it and the roach fell below. by the time I grabbed the roach to show him again he furiously scampered down the stairs and hid below in the corner trying to dig and bury under the small towel as much as possible.. doesnt make sense! wants to eat but is scared. nothing happened since last feeding time. nothing really changed.

 

[diamc]

It actually sounds like his eyes are irritated from the coil UVB since

his eyes are open usually all the time while in the corners but they dont look 'alert'. they are mostly half open and such.

What you have explained are the beginning signs that he prefers to avoid the bulb because it is causing some eye discomfort. Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse. You might want to take a look at this article and view the pictures regarding PKC. So, since it's time to change your UVB, it would be a good idea to change to either the Repti-Sun 10.0 tube or an Arcadia bulb.

I also wanted to mention that ANY type of needle thermometer can be off as much as 20 degrees if not more. The only 2 ways to get accurate readings are with either an infrared temp gun or digital thermometer with a long wire & probe end. Walmart has the AcuRite brand digital with probe for about $12.00 that will give you both readings at the same time and also the humidity level.

Regarding the possibility of brumation, if you live in the U.S., any beardies that were brumating or semi-brumating would be more active now. So, your beardie wouldn't be just starting the non-eating, hiding, etc.

 

[spikeithard]

thanks, Ill see what I can find. I will have to go for the bulb style because I only have a 10 inch hole at the top for the light to go through (not using mesh or screen). SO the long style tube light wont fit.

ya again today I took him to the landing area and looked at the roach in my hand for about 2 minutes than back away a bit almost acting scared of the roach then bolted down the stairs and into his hiding corner trying to bury himself in the towel.

 

[diamc]

Were you able to find a temp gun or digital with probe? The dial thermometers are very inaccurate. One of the members here just did some testing on them with explanations and pictures. Turns out that the dials can even be 40 degrees off! viewtopic.php?f=34&t=167279

I still say that your beardie is trying his best to avoid the lights and heat. Is there any way that you can make a bigger hole or hang a strip fluorescent inside the tank?

 

[spikeithard]

ya ill give it a go.. keep you posted

 

[spikeithard]

I tried a test today. I left the UV lamp off (the old reptiglo one) and left the heat lamp on. He didnt come out and when i placed him on the basking area he stayed there for about 5-10 minutes then went back into his corner. I tried to see if the UV lamp off made a difference but seems it didnt.

I have made the tough choice to sell him this weekend but I am. I made the buyer aware of the new light needed and he was fine with it. I hope little Orion is OK until saturday afternoon without UV light?

He has gone months now of not really being in it so I suppose a few more days isnt going to hurt much more.

I am moving and I just cant really find the time I need to devote to him but the new buyer is fairly experienced in reptiles and said hes going to a good home.

 

[Claudiusx]

I am sorry you are deciding to sell him.

Hopefully he will be going to a good home.

-Brandon

 

[spikeithard]

I think so. the guys seems nice and friendly.

But as far as the lighting goes, is there a reason why he still tries to hide even when the UV light is off? not used to it yet? and will he be fine for a few days more until he buys the reptisun light saturday afternoon

 

[Claudiusx]

Hi there,

You were still using the coil and turned it off?

He still could have been upset about not having the right wavelengths of light in his tank. Beardies see the world differently then we do, and without the proper lighting given to them, they can't see it how they need to see it, which could stress them out.

Really I wouldn't even give the new owner the coil bulb. Tell the new owner that he needs to get one of the bulbs we recommended, or buy it for him. We don't want Spike to get stuck without proper uvb again, especially if this is someone who doesn't know much about bearded dragons.

-Brandon

 

[spikeithard]

I told him he should get the reptisun long tube light from a store in this city. he is ok with that.

But what i want to know is the dragon ok without any UV light for the next few days until he buys it on saturday?

 

[Claudiusx]

He should be fine but of course since hes been without any good lighting for awhile now, no promises can be made. Usually they are just fine for a few days until good uvb can be bought.

The past few days has he been eating for you?

-Brandon

 

[spikeithard]

still not eating but yesterday he did eat some romaine hearts with some pellets and calcium on top.

he looked at a roach I was holding today for a few minutes but didnt bite. so I gave up. I tried the other day putting him in the feeding bin with 15-20 roaches in it and he just jumped out after a few minutes in there.

Ya your right, hes been without consistent light for the last few months because all he has done is hide so another few days shouldnt be too bad.

I wonder why the first 4 or so months he didnt mind the coil UV light thats in there now? only since mid december he started hiding more so I figured it was just brumation.