I dont know what to do anymore!

[Caramell]

Okay Im really frustrated and I dont know whats going on, so Ill keep this blunt:

Symptoms:
-no bowel movement in about 4 weeks since last time
-lethargic(refuses to leave basking spot and doesnt move much during out time)
-refuses food most times, never refuses feeders(superworms), didnt eat at all during winter
-constant light to medium stress marks
-never gains actual weight, loses all 'gained' weight after bm

What Ive done to try to help:
- just replaced reptisun 10.0 18" two days ago,Sits on mesh top because i dont have the means to hang it comfortably, he always gets 5 inches to it
-food dusted with calcium and herptivite
-food is kale with treats such as mushed apple,grapes,blueberry, dusted
-baths given two times a week with massage

I want to know how I can get him to pass stool naturally more often. I also want to know how I can get him to gain weight and keep it, hes always about 360g, never stayed higher. I just dont know what to do since he doesnt eat much.

He had two rounds of Panacur in the fall, .3cc daily for three days, repeated again after 2 weeks. While the last teeny poop was somewhat more formed than before treatment, I am extremely worried. 
He's almost 2 years old, about 18-20"(cant remember), and seems healthy aside from his pinworm thing in the fall.

Im stumped!

 

[AllanonsWrath]

Ok I am going to list a few things to try and help:

1. You should really get the UVB inside the mesh.
2. Kale is not a "Staple" green. Go here: http://www.BeautifulDragons.com/Nutrition.html to see what a better staple green is.
3. The fruits should not be given all of the time, they are occasional foods.
4. Any time a heavy medication such as a dewormer is given, you should give a probiotic as well. Try and pick up some Bene-bac or a similar probiotic for reptiles. The dewormer can mess with their digestive system.

What is the temperatures in the enclosure? Warm side, Cool side, and Basking?
What are you using to measure these temps?

 

[KristenT]

I see 'super worms' under feeders and think 'impaction'. I've heard ppl on here say that a drop or two of some kind of oil can help, if that's the case, but I don't remember which kind of oil. Hope you get it all figured out!

 

[AllanonsWrath]

Vegetable or Mineral Oil

 

[Gail]

Has he always eaten a lot of fruit? I would have him checked for excessive yeast in his gut. Not sure if they need a poo sample for that or what. You might also have a blood test to see what his calcium levels are since kale will bind it so the body can't use it proper.

 

[Caramell]

1. I'm working on getting it in the tank
2. I should have clarified: he was fed a staple of collard greens before I ran out, and my mother bought Kale instead of collards so thats what I have been feeding him for just a week. I am familiar with the nutrition guide
3. The fruits are given as a treat, not in large quantities
4. I'll try to get that asap.

Hot side is 86-88F, basking spot 96-99F, cool side 76-78, measure with accurite digital probe thermometer.

The thing is, I don't feed him supers everyday, only a few about one or two times a week.

Any advice for getting weight on him?

 

[AtlasStrike]

Switch to more digestible feeders. Supers are high in fat, and high fat diets over time actually cause lethargy and weight loss. Ironic, right? I would try to get him eating crickets, dubia, phoenix worms, maybe hornworms, any feeders that are lower in fat and softer bodied. If you can start him eating them and slowly increase the amount of feeders, while simultaneously making sure he is still eating his greens, you should see an improvement in body condition and weight gain. At 2 years old, feeders should only be about a quarter of his diet though.

How much does he weigh?
I would definitely get a fecal sample tested for parasites and yeast and cut out the fruit completely. Substitute raw butternut or acorn squash instead (just run it through a cheese grater).

 

[Caramell]

Switch to more digestible feeders. Supers are high in fat, and high fat diets over time actually cause lethargy and weight loss. Ironic, right? I would try to get him eating crickets, dubia, phoenix worms, maybe hornworms, any feeders that are lower in fat and softer bodied. If you can start him eating them and slowly increase the amount of feeders, while simultaneously making sure he is still eating his greens, you should see an improvement in body condition and weight gain. At 2 years old, feeders should only be about a quarter of his diet though.

How much does he weigh?
I would definitely get a fecal sample tested for parasites and yeast and cut out the fruit completely. Substitute raw butternut or acorn squash instead (just run it through a cheese grater).

I'll go to the pet store tonight and get crickets. I'll see if my parents are willing to order some hornworms. I just asked if I could get the probiotic, and it is in the process of being ordered.
I can't remember how much he weighs since I havent checked in a while, but its always in the 340-360 range. Not that much. If his stool still doesnt look good after the next time he passes, I will get another fecal done. I'll be going to the supermarket today as well and get collards/squash.

 

[Caramell]

Okay so a few updates:
-He still hasn't pooped, but I've been giving him warm baths with massages daily this week, and today I gave him about .2cc of olive oil
-I bought dandelion greens to feed as a staple
-Still haven't put the bulb inside the cage, but I'm working on just DYI-ing it and hanging my entire clunky hood by some heavy duty wires
- I found out that reptiworms are actually cheap for me initially, not sure about shipping(could anyone clarify the rates?), but I may be getting 200 of those

EDIT: Found out the shipping price, seems very likely that I'm getting them! Should I get 200 or 300, and how many a week should he eat?

 

[KristenT]

All considering, I'd stick with the lower amount at first, just to feel things out. The last think you want is to be over run with a worm that isn't being eatten fast enough! Personal experiance I don't remember which worm it was I ordered in bulk before, but a lot ended up daying cause it took Taz so long to eat them, so I ended up wasting a lot of the money.

 

[Caramell]

Good idea, I just wanted to get a larger amount at first because it would balance out the whole actual cost to shipping cost ratio, but I also think I can't order more than one Intro pack... I'll just get the 100 count cup then! I'm positive he'll eat them, he's extremely responsive to crickets and worms, so I don't doubt that he'll eat these too. I just hope he poops soon... That olive oil better work!

 

[KristenT]

Good luck! If all else fails, I would also call the vet and let him know what's going on now... just too keep him updated, and maybe get some info from him with out having to drive up there and take the beardie in! But, a lot of the people on this forum... well, I've learned that's almost as good, if not better, then vet advice

OK, now for what's probably a really stupid question, and the answer is probably no, but it's nearly midnight and it crossed my mind so I'm gonna as anyhow, though I'll probably kick myself for it tomorrow. Lettuce gives beardies loose stool, and has too much water and little nutrition, right? So.... given the issues here, maybe that would actually help loosen things up and given the water content, maybe help with hydration....? Probably a big 'no' there, but I asked anyhow

EDIT: Oh, and that's the same idea I had with the worms... I figured it would balance out shipping and I'd get more for my money's worth. lol. That was a great idea, until so many of them died :lol: And now that I think about it, it was either wax worms or butter worms... I forget which... it was whichever one beardies CAN have on a regular basis. You might have better luck storing the kind you're ordering longer though too.

 

[Caramell]

Lettuce gives beardies loose stool, and has too much water and little nutrition, right? So.... given the issues here, maybe that would actually help loosen things up and given the water content, maybe help with hydration....? Probably a big 'no' there, but I asked anyhow

EDIT: Oh, and that's the same idea I had with the worms... I figured it would balance out shipping and I'd get more for my money's worth. lol. That was a great idea, until so many of them died :lol: And now that I think about it, it was either wax worms or butter worms... I forget which... it was whichever one beardies CAN have on a regular basis. You might have better luck storing the kind you're ordering longer though too.

That's a good point with the lettuce, if nothing else works, I might try it as a last resort. I pay $6 at petsmart for 50 superworms, and Ill be paying 12 dollars for a cup of 100 phoenix worms, so while I'm not really saving money, I'm definitely getting a better product for the same price. I'm not too worried about them lasting long, I just really hope I get him nice and fat like the other spoiled male dragons on here. D: He's always been so lean.

Also, I just wrapped him in a towel while he was sleeping and rearranged his whole cage. I managed to hang his UVB lamp inside the cage, and I rearranged all his accessories in there so he can bask and absorb UVB at the same time on a larger area of the tank.

 

[AtlasStrike]

100 phoenix worms, even the large size are equivalent (size wise) to like 20 super worms. If you are positive she will eat them, order more. They A LOT smaller than you would expect.

 

[Caramell]

100 phoenix worms, even the large size are equivalent (size wise) to like 20 super worms. If you are positive she will eat them, order more. They A LOT smaller than you would expect.

Thanks for the tip! I'll try to order the 400 pack of the large ones then, if my parents agree to it.

So I just gave him another bath today with massage and another .2cc of olive oil after. He ate his dandelion and butternut squash. It amazes me how he continues to eat somewhat regularly but still hasn't poo'ed. I'll most likely be ordering the probiotic today too.


EDIT: Oh jesus, he just pooed. God it was awful. There was a large weird light colored mass, possibly a terrible urate or maybe the superworm blockage, and lots of green yuck. Now he seems to be happier, he's running around my room right now with a lot of energy. If his poo condition doesnt improve by the next two times, I'll get a fecal done again.