How many pinkies?

[Ethelia]

if you read my first question it was "how many pinkies to feed" not if i should or shouldn't. i am not arguing against everyone elses opinion. i raise my dragons the way i want to raise them. just like i raise my kids the way i want to raise them. For example a lot of people say not to place them on sand, i don't have mine on sand cuz it's apain in the butt. If i read right dragons are from Austrailia. which has sand on it. people are entitled to their opinion. Not everyone is the same. But just because some says not to feed a pinkie to my dragons it doesn't mean that i am going to listen to them. I respect their views on how their raise their dragon. like some people baby their dragon so much they have pillows and blanket for them. i am pretty sure some of those people like to dress up their dogs also. I'm not going to give them a blanket or a little pillow. that's not what they would have in their natural habitat. no offense to those who do i think it's cute.

With respect Im not sure this is the best attitude to have when seeking advice. We are all here because we love bearded dragons and we enjoy discussing them and helping others. We have no other agenda here.


Anyway!
On with the pinkie debate.
There are pros and cons. In my mind the cons outweigh the pros.

Pros:
High protien
Helpful boost for recovering dragons or females post egg laying

Cons:
High fat
Not neccisary as a suppliment to the diet if they are eating live feeders.
Hard to digest
Impaction is a risk. Not every dragon is going to get impacted but it is still a risk, and considering there are not a huge amount of possitives to feeding pinkies I dont understand why you would take the risk.

I speak from personal experience, im not trying to blindly stomp my foot down and say YOU ARE WRONG. You are not.

It comes down to the fact that every dragon is different. Some dragons have a much slower digestive system than others, so where they can handle hard shelled insects like superworms they may find it a great strain to digest a pinkie.
My boy Ruben was badly impacted when I brought him home. It took weeks for him to struggle to pass sand and shells that had been blocking his bowels. He was only 3 months old so he had not been living this way long before it became serious for him.
It was very stressful and very scary for the both of us. To see him straining and straining broke my heart.
Dragons can and do die from impaction.

After he cleared all the gunk from his bowels his digestive system had suffered alot of strain. For the next 2 months Ruben was barely digesting any of his food, worms would come out half whole, veg would come out in chunks, greens would come out just slightly withered.
Slowly but surely he got better, but to this day he still has a delicate system which can no longer handle feeders such as locusts.

In my oppinion feeding pinkies will always be a risk, your dragon could be fine, your dragon could suffer serious complications.
In my mind as a risk exists and as the supplimentation of pinkies is not neccisary for their diets I could not myself justify taking the risk.
What you want to do for your dragon is up to you.


A slightly irrelevant bit of information now.
Alot of us do argue against sand for alot of reasons, including bacteria, cost, impaction issues and the fact that is simply not their natural enviroment.
I did sand for one of my dragons against my will (she needed it as a cushion as she was disabled) and it was BEYOND a pain to deal with.

The idea that sand is like the natural habitat in Australia is actually a misenoma.
Although they live in a desert enviroment they dwell in the 'baked flats'. Which is basically solidified sand and earth, giving a texture which is much more like slate or solid clay than any particle substrate.


I hope you continue to seek advice here.
We are only here to help.

Holly

 

[zebraflavencs]

Hi ! I am among those that wouldn't feed a pinkie. I however would encourage the use of Pheonix worms, high in calcium, certain roach species, great on protein, too.
I don't have any young ladies, all mine are boys, however, you are wanting to give your young lady the best food you can, yes ?
Do consider these options I offered.
Janie

 

[vickson420]

Hello
I have recieved several reports on this thread in regards to it becoming a little out hand.It does seem like it has gotten back on track within the last several posts however I want to remind all of you to keep our policy on rudeness in mind when posting in this discussion.The purpose for these forums is to allow an open dialogue however rudeness cannot be tolerated.All opinions should be welcomed and responses to these opinions should be made in a polite and courteous manner.No attacks of any member will be tolerated.

 

[Epic]

I did sand for one of my dragons against my will (she needed it as a cushion as she was disabled) and it was BEYOND a pain to deal with.
Holly

If this is needed again, would shelf liner on top of folded towels be cushion enough? You probably wouldn't want to feed in there tho. I only say this because I know you're a "rescue angel". I'm sure you'll have more 'special needs' beardies in the future!

 

[Ethelia]

I did sand for one of my dragons against my will (she needed it as a cushion as she was disabled) and it was BEYOND a pain to deal with.
Holly

If this is needed again, would shelf liner on top of folded towels be cushion enough? You probably wouldn't want to feed in there tho. I only say this because I know you're a "rescue angel". I'm sure you'll have more 'special needs' beardies in the future!

Thank you for the thought but unfortunaly Dex is no longer with us. She was put to sleep early December.
That isnt something I had ever thought of, but if I do ever end up with another little one who also needs a cushion I will try that out definatly ^_^
Learn something new every day here!

Holly

 

[Epic]

I should of been more clear. I meant if you get another beardie with the same needs. :| I know Dex is watching over all of us to make sure we're treating out beardies right!

 

[RedInkAus]

Just to get back to the original question about the pinkies, I personally feed pinkies from time to time, no less than 1 - 1/12 month intervals and only a couple a time to my adult dragon. I think once a forthnight is too much due to their fat content. When used in moderation i believe they are actually beneficial as a fat and protein source. Just to clarify there is a risk of impaction in them as they take the dragons a while to digest them, which could lead to impaction, hence in moderation. Also when the times you feed the pinkies it would be beneficial to bump up the basking temps about 5 degrees to help with the digestion process. I don't feed any live feeders to my dragon until i know he has passed the pinkies through it's system. I also make sure that it get's a daily dose of natural sun for an hour or so for about 3 days after eating the pinkies.

For those people that say the dragon can't digest bones and cartilage, a bearded dragon is a predator in it's own right. It will eat any smaller prey it can find even vertebrates which includes pinkies when they come accross them and most certaily all smaller reptiles. It has evolved to deal with this kind of diet. Though that said i must repeat myself and say only do it in moderation if you feed it vertebrates.

Anyway hope these helps a little.

 

[Dakotachristy84]

that helped out a great deal. Right now i have a female that is gravid and i was planning on giving her one before she lays her eggs and 2 weeks after she lays her eggs another one to boost her back up. my male, bob doesn't eat them. i haven't tried Eddie, my other male, but i am sure he would take them. i have a small breeding tank of mice next to him. i just set it up a couple of days ago and shortly after he saw they were there he tried to get them. so i put a blocked him from seeing them and going food insane. i have 1 male and 4 female in the one tank and my normal feeders in another. the other feeds get fed to my ball pythons. i saw on youtube a guy give his baby dragon a baby dwarf hamster. the thing was bigger then his head by all means. the dragon ate it but i am sure he got really sick after wards. i know that it is ok to feed in moderation but some of the youtube people are *****s. there was another one that gave his adult bd a full grown mouse. i would never do that. my cousin wanted to feed them a new born rat pup, which i am sure she could have handled,(she's a full grown german giant) but i told him no. i just wanted to give her pinkies.

just to clear up some other stuff i don't keep my dragons on sand. it's to much of a pain in the butt. i have them on some kind of dirt that comes in a brick and you have to wet it to break it apart. it breaks down their poop really well and it's really small

 

[sandyvern]

Hi Dakotachristy84
I would think that if you choose to feed pinkies that 1 or so a week isn't going to hurt him/her. I have fed pinkies/fuzzies occassionally to my adult because the person I got him from did that...before I got beardie crazy and started researching about them all the time. And with the way my Harry pounces on them he obviously loves them. I think as long as you use good judgement about limiting his intake and making sure all the rest of his habitat (lights, heat etc) are taken care of I think you and your beardies will be ok. It is probably kinda of like us living on ice cream...in moderation it isn't gonna kill you (as far as I know )

I get stressed out when people go all crazy about these things (sand would be the other thing that really seems to drive people crazy). Everyone has their opinions...and everyone has different results with things...

Anyway...just thought I would put in my 2 cents :wink:
Sandy

 

[Dakotachristy84]

i know what you mean. i did a post about something else and when i told them i kept my dragons together 1 male 1 female in one 100gal tank, 4 smaller sub-adults in a 75 all female and 3 smaller sub-adults in a 30 which once they are out of their seperation stage (cuz i just got them) they are going to go into a bigger tank. everyone jumped all over me for housing them together. i've never seen any kind of aggression when housed together and i make sure they have enough room. if i ever saw them fighting or getting stressed out i woould put them in different tanks but i have yet to see that. i understand that people raise their kids and animals in different ways but it doesn't mean that one way is right and the other is wrong.

 

[rosie1102]

hi everyone,

After reading these posts i can see pinkies are 50/50 as some people agree some don't. I'm glad some one finally mentioned however (RedInkAus) that beardeds can digest cartilidge etc in the wild im sure a bearded dragon if it came across a pinkie would eat one rather than starve so there bodys should be capable. I do agree only in moderation and again i think if you do feed a pinkie then turn the tempreture up this should help to speed the metabolisim i studed at a college with reptiles and we fed the bearded dragons pinkies and had no problem and i myself recently fed my adult bearded dragon to help with weight gain.

i think if owners do enough research and give moderatly i dont quite understand were there is a problem as i said in the wild surley there natural behaviour would be to eat a pinkie.

 

[Dakotachristy84]

thank you so very much for standing up for me. i 've seen some people take things to the extreme when aruguring their sides. i am only going to probably be feeding a pinkie mouse to our female dragons after or before their lay eggs. to reboost them. it's not going to an everyday thing. like i know people really take a stand when you say you house 2 or 3 dragons together. i think it's up to the dragon if they want to be housed to together. if they get along then more power to them but i would never keep a dragon together that did't get a long or fight all the time.

 

[chadwick757]

Moderation is true of alot of the bigger feeder. And housing multiples is hit and miss if they are the same size. I have heard of freak beadie fights resulting in missing tail tips, but like you said..ultimately people will do what they want. Hope everything works out with the pinkies. Btw just out of curiosity how to you care for pinkies. Do you gut load them or anything?

 

[Paradon]

Here's the thing though. Just like everything...moderation is the key. Just like when you are on a diet whether it's for health issue or if you are trying to loose some weight, it doesn't mean you can't eat candies, cakes, cookies or other sweets. It just means you have to limit yourself to fewer servings. That's what my doctor tells me. I believe if you feed pinkies as part of a varied diet it can be beneficial since they do have more nutritional value than insect preys. The only down side to it is it's higher in fat so you might want to watch how much your beardie eat them. And Note: beardies in the wild not only eat insects, but they also eat other vertebrates smaller than they are that they can overpower. Whether it's smaller lizards or rodents, if they're small enough it's fair game. Hope this help!

 

[rosie1102]

personally with my pinkies i buy them already frozen from a reptile pet shop, then i just defrost when i need them and just give him the one every 3weeks.

The main reason i've put pinkies in his diet is my bearded dragon was very ill before christmas due to a pet shop and there bad advice with heating and lighting. Now that is under control his appertite has doubled and he is starting to put weight on but slowly so i thought a pinkie may help him.