How do I properly convince a pet store....

[monsterbeard]

I have a serious problem in my city. We have two pet stores that improperly house their bearded dragons. I know this is a common thing. Firstly, PetSmart keeps them in the tiniest enclosure, sometimes 10 at a time in a 5 gallon tank. They only feed them pellets and use improper lighting.. They always look sick, in fact I got my dragon there a year and a half ago and we had to revive him, I can only wonder how many poor beardies die. They don't seem to care. The other pet store is the same way and also use sand.. Sometimes there are no lights at all, how can i properly bring this to their attention in a way they will respect my efforts. Who else can I get involved? I've spoken to managers who will try to put me down and act like they know all about beardies when they do not. Suggestions please. I can't keep seeing this happen, I refuse to go into these stores, because of this but in reality I should be fixing it somehow.

 

[CooperDragon]

I've thought the same thing. I'm not really sure what to do but a thread like this may generate some useful ideas and get enough people to join on an idea to make a difference. What was done to make a lot of pet stores stop carrying dogs/puppies?

 

[KarenInCA]

It seems that pet stores could be fined for animal abuse if they don't treat the animals with proper care while in their store. Don't pet shops need to be licensed to carry live animals? There has to be some kind of animal control within the city that regulates pet shops, and if they dont comply with proper care they would have to pay a city fine.
Im just guessing at this, because I have heard of pet stores having to stop selling dogs for mistreatment.
There has to be SOME KIND OF animal watch unit that overlooks the care of animals in pet shops. If a store is licensed to sell live animals, then that store (logically) would have to answer to a local government enforcement unit. Otherwise, all pet shops would house many other kinds of animals as a matter of course, for profit.

 

[KarenInCA]

WIth a google search of "what city officials regulate the care of animals in pet shops?" the first thing that came up was this site...for Illinois, but it's highly likely that each state has the same thing, or something similar.

http://www.agr.state.il.us/AnimalHW/awflaws.html

Particularly this part of that site:
"The Animal Welfare Act provides for inspection and licensure of facilities that produce or offer certain animals for sale or adoption. Inspections ensure compliance with sanitation and animal health requirements. Several types of facilities are regulated under this act, including pet shops, dog dealers, breeding and boarding kennels, catteries, animal control facilities, animal shelters, foster homes, and guard dog services."

So then, after finding the particular phrase "animal welfare act" I googled "animal welfare california"
because I live in CA. I found the penal code for inadequate housing, feeding, heating, ventilation for animals sold in pet stores, but that did not give me the answer as to WHERE to report insufficient care of an animal in a pet store....which lead me to this from the ASPCA (nationally)

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/faq/pet-statistics.html

When visiting that site, if you click on "pet store complaints" you get this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pet Store Complaints
I’d like to make a complaint about the conditions/treatment of animals in a pet store. What should I do?

In New York City
New York State is in the beginning stages of the pet dealer licensing and inspection process. In the meantime, if you suspect criminal acts of animal cruelty taking place, such as intentionally harming an animal or depriving an animal of food, water or medical care, please call 311. For other pet store complaints, please call the Department of Health at (212) 676-2115.

Outside of New York City
We urge those who do not live in New York to contact any or all of the following organizations:

Your local SPCA or humane society, which may have the power to investigate such matters in your area. For a listing of animal agencies in your area, visit ASPCA.org.
your local Health Department/Board of Health, as the abuse of animals in pet stores and breeder facilities often involves unsafe or unsanitary conditions for humans
your local Better Business Bureau
local law enforcement officials
local media organizations
local politicians
the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which oversees wholesale breeders of dogs and cats. It is best to contact this agency by mail.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Long and short of it, I think the ASPCA is where anyone would start, for reporting a pet store in your own state/city nationwide. If nothing else, it looks as if they have the answers as to where to file a complaint about a pet store.

Honestly, I dont think you have much luck trying to tell a pet shop manager how to manage his shop. S/he might nod their head and agree, but even if they are sincere about agreeing with you, a chain store manager is going to look at costs - bottom line. And if it works, don't fix it. They have to answer to their corporate managers who probably really could care less because they are out of touch...and corporate managers are more motivated for overall profit than overall happiness of the animals.
Reporting them to authorities WILL get everyones attention, and Im sure you can do it anonymously so that you could potentially still shop there and go into the store to quietly investigate later if you choose to. And reporting them will cause the corporate manager to listen, because not only will it affect the profit but it also might result in a fine or the loss of license to continue selling the animals if they do not conform. But one person politely suggesting humane housing will most likely only get a head nod by the person who might have the title of only "shift assistant manager"...and then you would have to rely on that person taking the info to the shift manager, who would then have to take the information to the store manager and if it even gets that far, would then have to take it up with the regional manager...who might or might not care enough to take it up with the corporate management team. Unfortunately, and sadly, one person ...no matter how polite they are, will not get further than the assistant store manager nodding in agreement.

 

[CooperDragon]

Is there a set standard for proper care for dragons? I would think that if there is no set standard, then they could use a corporate "vet" to sign off on everything which would stand up to an investigation. How do you prove the conditions are poor if they've been signed off on and there is no set standard? Step 1 might be to come up with some kind of standard and have it accepted as the baseline for legal reference somehow.

 

[KarenInCA]

Im sure each state has its own penal codes, regardless of the animal they are selling. If they are selling a particular animal, that animal has to be provided with proper care for that species of animal.
Here is the penal code for CA for ANY animal sold in a pet store in CA, taken from this web site:

http://www.anapsid.org/pettrade/penalcode.html

Specifically:
§597l. Pet shops.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person who operates a pet shop to fail to do all of the following:

(1) Maintain the facilities used for the keeping of pet animals in a sanitary condition.

(2) Provide proper heating and ventilation of the facilities used for the keeping of pet animals.

(3) Provide adequate nutrition for, and humane care and treatment of, all pet animals under his care and control.

(4) Take reasonable care to release for sale, trade or adoption only those pet animals which are free of diseases or injuries.

(5) Provide adequate space appropriate to the size, weight and specie of pet animal.

(b) As used in this section:

(1) "Pet animals" means dogs, cats, monkeys, and other primates, rabbits, birds, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, snakes, iguanas, turtles and any other species of animal sold or retained for the purpose of being kept as a household pet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It would seem most importantly that #3 and #5 would relate to each specific species, and it's own needs to remain healthy. In other words, if they are housing 20 beardies in a 5 gallon tank without adequate UVB which is NEEDED for health...they are violating the CA penal code, and then the ASPCA for CA (for example) could direct someone in the right direction to investigate the shop further.

 

[CooperDragon]

Proper, adequate, and reasonable being used here concerns me. They have no definition and are up to interpretation. A pet store owner's definition of proper, adequate, or reasonable is likely very different than mine. I'd like to see something that states the min amount of UVB reaching the animals, a list of substrate that can be used, a specific number of animals per sq foot of tank space, an exact range of basking temperatures and a defined way of measuring the temperatures, etc. Pipe dream I'm sure though.

 

[KarenInCA]

Hey it could happen...and THAT is where one person (or a group) can make a difference. Perhaps those of us interested in participating need to contact our local ASPCAs or Humane Societies to find out more. and take notes, then come back here with the results of what we found out...to see how "regulated" it really is, or if it's just smoke and mirrors to keep some people in the "Health of animals" department of each state employed on the government dole.

 

[monsterbeard]

Thank you all very much, you have given me great ideas. I want this topic to stay active! In my free time I will be doing my own research (im in Ohio)

Hopefully soon , possibly after finals. my brain is mush

We should definitely organize- by state and make a difference, because we truly can if we all make an effort

 

[Tonja]

I used this site and wrote out a care sheet and took it to both petsmart and petco because of the conditions their beardies are kept in. I politely gave it to each manager and a copy to the so called reptile specialist in the stores. I was then informed that corporate sets the standards for their stores on how to keep their animals and they alone could not change things. I then called corporate and emailed them a copy of the care sheet. I did notice after my call and email, they took the sand out and petsmart here now uses the reptisun 10.0 over the tank. Still the tanks are dirty with food bits and pooh. They still house 3-7 babies per tank and if the babies get to big to sell they adopt them out. It was a small step in the right direction but its up to corporate as to how the animals are cared for. Three weeks ago I had petsmart pull a beardie out of the tank because it was sickly looking and they took it to the back to the vet <banfield>. After that I have no idea what happened with the poor little thing. It was sluggish, would not open its eyes, had no pep, just laid on the bottom of the cage. I guess I am lucky in some ways with petsmart, our store knows me and knows I know the proper care of beardies so they kind of listen without going against corporate plus one of reptile specialists raises beardies.

 

[KarenInCA]

Banfield is mostly for cats and dogs. And frankly, I wouldnt even take my dog there ever again. I did take my dog there once and the vet was MUCH MORE interested in showing me a video and upselling to a monthly "insurance" fee than actually taking care of my dog. Needless to say, after being in the exam room with my pooch for over a half hour to watch their video of why I should sign up with their monthly fee, and then being talked to by the vet about why that was such a great idea, I walked out without even keeping the main appointment or paying a dime. It didn't help matters much that I was there with a puppy and toddler in tow.
Most likely, Banfield just euthenised the dragon. I cant imagine they would want to spend money on it without being reimbursed by the way I've seem that they operate the doggie side of things.
But Im glad you stepped up to the plate. If they did put him down, at least he would not suffer any more.