How can I reduce swelling? What caused it?

[Nessiedrakosmom]

Hello all,
To jump right in, it's been on ongoing battle with my lil man Drako. (Who is to my guess about 8-9 months old now) He has a calcium deficiency but doesn't have full blown MBD based on xrays from my vet. His symptoms started with not eating or moving from his basking spot, to gradual loss of use of both his back legs. Since then he is now on a calcium gluconate supplement twice daily, along with my dusting of crix every other day when he gets bugs. I dust calcium with D3 3x and without D3 once in a week. I have not gotten my hands on a multivitamin that I trust yet, still hunting the perfect one. My crix are gutloaded with Mazuri brand high calcium diet.

Since I'm sure someone will ask.
40g tank
100w basking bulb dull yellow color he gets 6"-8" away
10.0 T5 reptisun UVB 22" long
Basking temps between 95-105
Cool side 75-85
Reptile ecocarpet for substrate
Variety of greens daily (bolk choy, collard greens, kale, bell peps, carrots) rarely fruits if he'll eat it.
Crix gutloaded mostly as a staple, superworms and hornworms for treats
Already told you my dusting with supplements
Baths vary, depends on the cues I get if hes feeling up to swimming around or is wanting water. He has a bowl that i keep fresh water in, have tried to teach him to drink out of it. He just prefers to drink when i give him a bath.
Weekly cleaning schedule of taking everything out and scrubbing it all down with Flukers brand reptile safe soap.
Monthly I bake my rocks/logs within his cage.

My question is that during this battle with getting him back to health Ive seen significant improvement as hes back to eating drinking and pooping normal. I do see improvement in motion in his back legs. He no longer drags them but attempts to move and walk like he did before his defiency. I have noticed his back knees are definitely swollen as I can see the skin between the scales very clearly. I asked my vet last time i was there, he said it would just be fluid buildup and should go away on its own once hes feeling better.

I have a feeling that if I can get the swelling to go down, he would be much more inclined to try to use full motion of his back legs. At this point it seems the swelling is holding him back. Are there home remedies that can help reduce the swelling? Is it as simple as applying cold? I dont want to try that without legitimate reason to, because I can imagine that doesn't feel too good for a beardie. He already isn't a fan of me because twice a day I have to administer meds orally.

I've also looked into gout as a possibility but I don't believe it fits. I could be wrong, but would like to avoid an unnecessary vet trip if I can.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Do you have any pictures of him we could see, as well as the tank setup?
That's great you are using a T5 Reptisun. How close to him is it & is it mounted on top of
the screen or underneath of the screen?
Since you are using a liquid calcium glubionate from the vets, I wouldn't dust any of his
feeders with calcium with D3 or plain calcium. He may be getting too much calcium which
can cause same/similar symptoms of metabolic bone disease. It causes malabsorption &
soft tissue swellings, too.
I am happy to hear he is improving, that is wonderful news! His diet sounds terrific as well.
Is he eating good too?
It most likely isn't gout, but could be a gout like condition, pseudo gout which is usually
caused by nutritional factors. It can be corrected but I think the calcium should be cut to
just the liquid calcium given by the vet. Since he is under a strong UVB light, his body will
synthesize enough D3 naturally to where he doesn't need it supplemented.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hello all,
To jump right in, it's been on ongoing battle with my lil man Drako. (Who is to my guess about 8-9 months old now) He has a calcium deficiency but doesn't have full blown MBD based on xrays from my vet. His symptoms started with not eating or moving from his basking spot, to gradual loss of use of both his back legs. Since then he is now on a calcium gluconate supplement twice daily, along with my dusting of crix every other day when he gets bugs. I dust calcium with D3 3x and without D3 once in a week. I have not gotten my hands on a multivitamin that I trust yet, still hunting the perfect one. My crix are gutloaded with Mazuri brand high calcium diet.

Since I'm sure someone will ask.
40g tank
100w basking bulb dull yellow color he gets 6"-8" away
10.0 T5 reptisun UVB 22" long
Basking temps between 95-105
Cool side 75-85
Reptile ecocarpet for substrate
Variety of greens daily (bolk choy, collard greens, kale, bell peps, carrots) rarely fruits if he'll eat it.
Crix gutloaded mostly as a staple, superworms and hornworms for treats
Already told you my dusting with supplements
Baths vary, depends on the cues I get if hes feeling up to swimming around or is wanting water. He has a bowl that i keep fresh water in, have tried to teach him to drink out of it. He just prefers to drink when i give him a bath.
Weekly cleaning schedule of taking everything out and scrubbing it all down with Flukers brand reptile safe soap.
Monthly I bake my rocks/logs within his cage.

My question is that during this battle with getting him back to health Ive seen significant improvement as hes back to eating drinking and pooping normal. I do see improvement in motion in his back legs. He no longer drags them but attempts to move and walk like he did before his defiency. I have noticed his back knees are definitely swollen as I can see the skin between the scales very clearly. I asked my vet last time i was there, he said it would just be fluid buildup and should go away on its own once hes feeling better.

Any bloods taken to check the diagnosis ?
.... may be gout setting in

I have a feeling that if I can get the swelling to go down, he would be much more inclined to try to use full motion of his back legs. At this point it seems the swelling is holding him back. Are there home remedies that can help reduce the swelling? Is it as simple as applying cold? I dont want to try that without legitimate reason to, because I can imagine that doesn't feel too good for a beardie. He already isn't a fan of me because twice a day I have to administer meds orally.

I've also looked into gout as a possibility but I don't believe it fits. I could be wrong, but would like to avoid an unnecessary vet trip if I can.

Have you tried silkworms , they have natural anti-inlamatory enzymes in them. https://www.silkwormshop.com/benefits.html
http://nutritiongang.com/silkworm-enzyme-serrapeptase/

 

[Nessiedrakosmom]

Thats a very good point about too much calcium. But he has a calcium gluconate NOT a glubionate. The vet suggested I try to find some since it's now over the counter and you don't need a prescription. He did say a glubionate would be better and show faster results. I did buy a glubionate but when I got it, the second ingredient was corn syrup which worried me. I haven't been able to find anything on corn syrup and beardies online, so I haven't given it to him.

I will hold off on dusting and see if that will help his swelling. Ill also order some of those worms if I can too.

Ill be posting some pics here soon.

Also his UVB is on mesh and is the same height as the basking bulb 6-8

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Which brand of calcium did you purchase before?
I do think all of the calcium sources are overload though.
The T5 being at 6-8 inches on top of the screen should be fine then. Does he spend a
decent amount of time under his light?

How is he doing today?

Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

This stuff is EXCELLENT - http://vetafarm.com.au/product/calcivet/

Calcium (Ca++) as Calcium borogluconate 33g/L Vitamin D3 25000i.u/L Magnesium (Mg++) as Magnesium sulphate 2g/L

Concentration in bottle - each Litre contains:
Calcium 33g, Vitamin D3 25000 IU

Dosing :

0.2mL per 100g body weight (4 drops per 3½ oz body weight.)

, my reptile vet prescribed - told me it works great for both birds and reptiles .
>> I used it very successfully for Lucky (juvenile eastern water skink who was rescued - from nextdoor's cat) ,
>> then for George (juvenile bluetongue who broke his upper left arm)
>> and then for Wriggles an adult eastern water skink who was injured accidently by the lawn mower guy (hit by the whippersnipper cord).

Is dosed by body mass and given orally by syringe or eyedropper daily.

Is available in the USA , https://www.allparrotproducts.com/vetafarm-calcivet/

 

[Nessiedrakosmom]

Hello again all!
Finally able to find some time to post some pics. Drako is currently swimming around in the new tub, which really is just a cat litter tray. (Not ever used for cat litter, bought from store, washed and now hes swimming) it's the perfect size for him to swim and i dont have to clean out the bathtub each time. Yay!

Anywho, he spends almost all of his time under his lights. I dont really see him anywhere else. I have noticed hes not eating his bugs very ferociously, but they are not dusted. He also isn't too into his salads, but maybe he's just being a weenie and wants me to hand feed each piece. He has actually gained weight from last vet visit, so I'm not super concerned about his lack of appetite today.

Swelling has not gone down, and I've actually only been giving him one dose of the calcium from the vet to see if that could help with swelling. Also because he gets very upset with me when I have to give him meds. Black beard, and a huff of air whenever i try to get his mouth open.

The brand was Austral Gecko for the calcium glubionate. Maybe that was meant for leopard geckos? On their website it said great for beardies with MBD or calcium deficiency so i went for it. Should've done more research I suppose. A lot of sites I'd click on the link then "this product is no longer available" page would pop up. Super frustrating.

Heres some pics of his knees, and tank set up

 

[Nessiedrakosmom]

Tank setup from front view. UVB fixture is right in front of the basking lamp

All different angles of his knees. I tried to get close ups as best I could with my phone. There is definitely skin showing between the scales and not much movement in or outward by the knee joints. As I said I'm fairly certain this swelling is what it holding him back from being back to normal.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It looks like he is developing gout, which is what the swelling is caused from. How long
has the swelling been present?
He most likely started developing it due to poor calcium absorption earlier on. When did
you put in the T5 Reptisun tube bulb for him? Too much calcium can lead to a gout like
condition which is hopefully what it is & can be remedied eventually.
He may need to get on some black or tart cherry extract & possibly allopurinol for the
gout right now until you can get it reversed if it's not full blown gout.
Have you had a blood test done on him?
I am sorry Draco is going through this! I know he doesn't like taking meds, or fluids, but
you will need to try & get oral fluids into him if possible.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Nessiedrakosmom]

Looks like another vet visit ?. The swelling has been present since probably the beginning of this whole process which was right after new years. Drako has been drinking fluids every single day, and i try to give him a bath every day. I dont have to force water cause normally he glass dances when hes thirsty. I have a feeding syringe that i just fill with water or i take him to his tub for bath and drink. Ive had a bowl with water in his cage since i got him, and hace tried to teach him to drink from it. He wont.

I asked the vet before and he said it didn't look like swelling but just like fluid build up. Or something like that. No i didnt have a blood test done... because im broke.

I got the T5 probably a week into January so hes been under it for almost a month now. With the liquid calcium twice a day for most of that time now once a day.