homemade dubia chow?

[Neko no Tsuchi]

Anyone got ideas on the proper ratio for the stuff I'm putting in my mixer?

High-protein kitten food (Purina, 40% min. protein)
Whole grain oats
Whole grain Cheerios w/no added sugar
Generic fish food

Anything else I should add?

Buying the chow online is getting costly, and my colony practically exploded in population last month. I'm only feeding one beardie and I've got at least a thousand of these buggers! I'm even considering keeping some as pets... once I get past holding them.

 

[patrickb]

Opinions will vary on this one a lot I think. You could end up with over 100 ingredients before you know it. I personally like to try and keep whatever mixes I have simple and add other stuff on the side for variety. One thing that helps is to take the individual ingredients and place in with the colony in separate containers, but have it all available at the same time. Take note of what the roaches go for first and eat the most of, and adjust your ratios accordingly. The cheapest ingredients probably should make up the bulk of your recipe with the other things they like the most coming in second. I still toy around with different things based on how easy the ingredients are for me to aquire, the cost, etc. I'm personally looking to eliminate dog/kitty food and any animal based proteins from the diet to test a theory I have.

 

[Geoff22]

You know im kinda curious what others use in there chow, if you guys would be so kind to share I will be very thankful! You can PM me with you want.

But this is what im using right now,

Catfood
Protein powder
fish flakes Then I sprinkle a little bit of sugar on there

They eat it ok up to now, seems like there getting bored of it. At 1st they would go through a whole lid in a day now they go through about half maybe even less, So any thing that you can help me out with would be much appreciated !!!

 

[BestRoach]

Dubia do not need animal based protiens. In their native habitat, they would survive almost entirely on decaying plant matter. Obviously, they will take what is presented to them, so should an animal die I am sure they would readily consume it.

My chow contains no animal protiens, and my colonies are doing fantastic. High protein does not specifically require animal parts. I am experimenting with a new feed formula, and this one does contain animal components. Protien levels are double that of v1, but so is the cost. My roaches seem to prefer v1, so unless I notice increased breeding or health, v2 is going to be a complete strike out. I will keep some around however, as my Posticus seem to really like to super high protein levels. That said, they are a particularly protein hungry roach, and their diet is very differant than Dubia, or other Blaberus species.

 

[Ryan Maguire]

All I know is my Dubia LOVE Banana. I try to give it twice a week or more!

 

[patrickb]

Dubia do not need animal based protiens. In their native habitat, they would survive almost entirely on decaying plant matter. Obviously, they will take what is presented to them, so should an animal die I am sure they would readily consume it.

No doubt, this is definitely the case. I would imagine that Dubia and a large majority of roach species can actually do well on a real low protein diet, with the exceptions being the Posticus and other species that are prone to cannibalism (just like crickets). The thing about the plant vs animal based proteins I am wondering is how much does it affect the overall odor of the colony. I know animal based proteins always seem to have a much stronger and more pungent smell than the plant versions. I'm thinking that the undigested proteins in the poop break down and contribute to much of the smell of any colony, therefore the ones fed animal based proteins would have a stronger odor than a colony fed strictly plant based proteins. Have you noticed any difference in the smell of the colonies since you been using the new version of your chow? Dubia don't have enough odor to really notice it in I guess, but I know you have other species, such as Blatta Lateralis which do have a noticeable (though not strong or repulsive) odor to them. Just curious what your experience has been with that so far.

 

[patrickb]

All I know is my Dubia LOVE Banana. I try to give it twice a week or more!

Mine love over ripened banana. They will eat a fresh one, but once it is ripened to a certain point, they inhale it. Something else you guys should try is Baby Rice Cereal w/mixed fruit. If you can find that flavor, all of my roaches eat it before any other dry food, and sometimes even before the fresh food!

 

[BestRoach]

Dubia do not need animal based protiens. In their native habitat, they would survive almost entirely on decaying plant matter. Obviously, they will take what is presented to them, so should an animal die I am sure they would readily consume it.

No doubt, this is definitely the case. I would imagine that Dubia and a large majority of roach species can actually do well on a real low protein diet, with the exceptions being the Posticus and other species that are prone to cannibalism (just like crickets). The thing about the plant vs animal based proteins I am wondering is how much does it affect the overall odor of the colony. I know animal based proteins always seem to have a much stronger and more pungent smell than the plant versions. I'm thinking that the undigested proteins in the poop break down and contribute to much of the smell of any colony, therefore the ones fed animal based proteins would have a stronger odor than a colony fed strictly plant based proteins. Have you noticed any difference in the smell of the colonies since you been using the new version of your chow? Dubia don't have enough odor to really notice it in I guess, but I know you have other species, such as Blatta Lateralis which do have a noticeable (though not strong or repulsive) odor to them. Just curious what your experience has been with that so far.

I have not noticed an immediate smell difference, but having multiple species of roaches housed in the same room guarantees that a strange odor is already present. I doubt I would notice any change in my dubia colony, not when I have the hissers and Posticus right next to them. The odor coming from my Posticus bin is so strong, that their odor is virtually the only one I notice when working with my bugs. The hissers come in second; their peanut-butter/rotting fruit smell is also easily noticed.

I will say that should fresh animal matter be fed I am certain the frass will take on a new odor. All my feeds are previously processed, so there would be no natural decaying of the proteins once consumed. I am sure some fresh chicken or steak would shift my dubia's smell more towards that of a Posticus. Although, Posticus excrement is completely different than Dubia's, and there is substantially more of it...so this is speculation on my part.
It seems this would be an interesting experiment for someone who just raises dubia, or another plant eating roach like Blaberus Discoids. If only one colony is raised, it would be easier to detect a smell difference as the feed formula is augmented.

V2 of my feed is awesome stuff on paper. It’s unfortunate my roaches didn't seem to like it as much as v1 (posticus excluded). This does however somewhat confirm that dubia do not require extremely high protein levels. There is even some debate in the industry that too much protein is harmful, because it builds up in the system and can eventually kill off some of the colony. This hasn't been definitively shown however, and there are still numerous breeders using super high protein animal based chow, like cat food.

 

[patrickb]

I will say that should fresh animal matter be fed I am certain the frass will take on a new odor. All my feeds are previously processed, so there would be no natural decaying of the proteins once consumed. I am sure some fresh chicken or steak would shift my dubia's smell more towards that of a Posticus. Although, Posticus excrement is completely different than Dubia's, and there is substantially more of it...so this is speculation on my part.

Definitely would be a huge difference in smell if fresh proteins were provided, not just from the proteins themselves. However, I would like to point out that everything decays, even the processed stuff. It's more about how fast it decays than anything else. If the digestive process of the roaches has any affect on the rate of decay on the processed material, then it could indeed have an impact on the smell. Theories only here, I hope to test this one day.

It seems this would be an interesting experiment for someone who just raises dubia, or another plant eating roach like Blaberus Discoids. If only one colony is raised, it would be easier to detect a smell difference as the feed formula is augmented.

This is actually something I want to duplicate myself. Smell is not something easy to register with instruments or anything of the sorts, so results from each individual would vary, but experiencing the results myself would give me a good idea. I plan on using two separate colonies with separate feeds that are close in protein levels. Going to be some time before I can set this up properly, but that's the plan, any advice you have on this part would be greatly appreciated.

V2 of my feed is awesome stuff on paper. It’s unfortunate my roaches didn't seem to like it as much as v1 (posticus excluded). This does however somewhat confirm that dubia do not require extremely high protein levels. There is even some debate in the industry that too much protein is harmful, because it builds up in the system and can eventually kill off some of the colony. This hasn't been definitively shown however, and there are still numerous breeders using super high protein animal based chow, like cat food.

Info like this is so good. That's the type of stuff I like to see mentioned. Definitely sets up some potential experiments in the future! :lol:

 

[Geoff22]

Ok now that we got all the politician answers (indirectly answering my question with no actually response to my question) :laughhard:

What are the actually ingredients that you people use in your colony's ? I know this is a touchy subject as some of you sell them stuff on your websites, but if you want you can PM me.....but really just lookin for some stuff to get some vitamins in my roaches.

 

[patrickb]

I don't use a blend like you are looking to do at this point. Though I am thinking about doing it for convenience eventually. Usually what I feed them is what I have on hand, or happen to see and pickup one day, so it varies a lot.

Baby Rice Cereal w/Mixed Fruits
Whole Oats
Wheat Bran of Wheat Flour
Dog food
Dried green peas
A teaspoon of sugar or honey every once in a while
Rabbit food
Various cereals
Peanuts, sunflower seeds, and other nuts

They really love the sugar and honey added as a treat, but I limit it a lot. Whatever dry blend you end up with, don't forget to add those fresh fruits and veggies too. They got nuts for them.

 

[Geoff22]

by patrickb on Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:42 pm

I don't use a blend like you are looking to do at this point. Though I am thinking about doing it for convenience eventually. Usually what I feed them is what I have on hand, or happen to see and pickup one day, so it varies a lot.

Baby Rice Cereal w/Mixed Fruits
Whole Oats
Wheat Bran of Wheat Flour
Dog food
Dried green peas
A teaspoon of sugar or honey every once in a while
Rabbit food
Various cereals
Peanuts, sunflower seeds, and other nuts

They really love the sugar and honey added as a treat, but I limit it a lot. Whatever dry blend you end up with, don't forget to add those fresh fruits and veggies too. They got nuts for them.

Awesome thanks alot man!!

I went out tonite after reading this and I tried finding that baby rice ceral, but all I could find is the one with bannana instead of the mixed fruit one, so imma give it a try and see how it works out. I also got some "whole grain" and some oatmeal (the all natural stuff).

So the plan is tomorrow, imma grind some of this stuff up and put it all in there seperate I think and see if I can put a mix together off what they chow down 1st to last .......

Ill let ya guys/gals know how it works out tomorrow

 

[WarDaddy]

Oatmeal, do you feed it dry?

Fruits do you peel them or just toss them in whole and let them go at it?

 

[Zemanski]

my current mix has dry dog food, oats, rabbit food, biscuits bran and calcium powder (vet says I have to add calcium because my beardie has mbd from birth)

I also feed them veg but only ultra high calcium veg like bak choi - vet's orders

and I don't give them water or bug gel but calci-paste - from the vet

 

[Geoff22]

Oatmeal, do you feed it dry?

Im assuming dry, water + colony other than crystals usually is a bad idea

Fruits do you peel them or just toss them in whole and let them go at it?

I would like to know the answer to this also