Hmmm.....too small to medicate?

[danab]

OK I have one petstore rescue baby who I am guessing is about 2.5 months and he eats like a pig and is growing like mad. I have been watching and screening his poops since he has a ridiculously high coccida count and what looks to be lots of flagellates. So now that he grew a bit more I decided to take him to the vet since his coccida counts have not gone down in 5 weeks (despite Reptaid and probios) and he had a few super runny poops. The vet we saw is highly regarded and specializes in reptiles.

I told the vet I was there due to his super high coccidia counts and I was also concerned about the large number of flagellates I could see on the wet preps. The vet examined him, looked at his belly and felt it. Then tells me that he has coccida, worms and probably flagellates and gives him a dose of pyrantel pamoate. He said that my beardie is too small for any other meds (36-38g) and when I asked about ponazuril he said the pyrantel was safe but anything else might kill him. No fecal was done and we have to go back in a month.

Now I'm worried that I'll be neglecting him if his coccidia counts don't decrease over the next month since pyrantel pamoate doesn't treat coccidia. Is 38g really too small to treat with ponazuril or even albon (not that I wanted albon)? The vet was really busy so I didn't have time to discuss it. I'm thinking he might want to see if he clears the parasites on his own and see about treating him in a month if he still needs it? I know some folks are against treating baby beardies at all unless they are in dire need. At least my beardie doesn't act/look sick and is still eating.

He also said I might see a bolus in his poop from the pyrantel pamoate. Would that be a mass of dead worms?

I'm a little bit stressed out now. Is 36-38g really too small to medicate safely? I guess I can try another round of Reptaid after the rest period.

 

[Beardednoob]

I do not believe that Reptaid will treat or cure any illnesses. It can however rehydrate and nourish the dragon. I am not sure of weight and the restrictions there of but, I do know of a possible treatment, which would be at your own knowledge and risk factor.

http://www.thepetsupplycompany.com/anti---parasite-medicated-food-tortliz-2oz.html#productid=7073139&channelid=FROOG

I am unsure if it will help with the particular issues regarding your dragon but, it is just a thought.

And to help with the bolus word
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bolus

 

[Beardednoob]

I would like to add if you choose to use the medicated product you should also use a pro-biotic such as bene-bac to restore the good gut flora that the medication will also impact. The medication in the product is Metronidazole and has been used to treat coccida.

 

[danab]

I have all the medications to treat standard stuff in my beardie first aid kit here (I even have both of the medicated food products on hand since they were very inexpensive) as well as acidophilz+. I like to be prepared and save money if possible, but I still take all my critters to the vet as needed to make sure they are on track.

My concern is the vet said he is too small for any of those meds at 36-38g. Both the albon and panacure dosing charts start at 50g which seems to support this? If medicating them when they are small is more dangerous than not medicating them if they are still eating etc. then that would make sense I guess.

Figured I would see if anyone else has run into this issue before just so I can be more at ease.

Go figure, a skunk must have gotten hit at the main road and my house now smells like skunk booty. Of course it is hot so I have all the windows open. Sigh.

 

[Beardednoob]

Go figure, a skunk must have gotten hit at the main road and my house now smells like skunk booty. Of course it is hot so I have all the windows open. Sigh.

:lol:

I would support danab on that too I have been looking for anything and I also found something stating 50g. I also have a beardie first aid kit lol, but mine is more just sitting out on a self. :wink:

 

[MissT]

Have you steam cleaned his viv and furniture... replaced his normal furniture with 'disposable' furniture etc? Im assuming you have based on how wll organised you are but just thought I would throw it out there - keeping the viv SUPER clean can often help with lowering coccidia levels.

Also, just from experience - when Kazi was 8 weeks old he was at the vet due to an injury and general check up. The vet would not give him anything other than topical medications as he said at that size and weight his body was much too small to cope with it.

 

[danab]

Have you steam cleaned his viv and furniture... replaced his normal furniture with 'disposable' furniture etc? Im assuming you have based on how wll organised you are but just thought I would throw it out there - keeping the viv SUPER clean can often help with lowering coccidia levels.

Also, just from experience - when Kazi was 8 weeks old he was at the vet due to an injury and general check up. The vet would not give him anything other than topical medications as he said at that size and weight his body was much too small to cope with it.

He's pretty much in a bare quarantine tank with shelf paper and a basking spot for furniture. Was fun getting the stand and everything for his lights to hang over it and hes growing so fast that he's going to outgrow that tank soon (hopefully not in the month the vet says I have to wait to take him back).

I spot clean with quats when he poops and I catch him in the act, steam and quats if I dont. Whole tank is getting quats and steamed at least every other day depending on how his poops are (sometimes he might skip a day pooping). He even gets "rinsed" off if he walks through his poop and he doesn't ever drink his bath water (I read coccidia cysts will float and the beardies drink them in their baths and reinfect themselves). All of my beardies have a dedicated bathtub (yes, I have 7 beardie bathtubs because I am a lunatic) that gets disinfected and steamed after use so they don't share cooties too. We wash our hands like crazy and when we handle him we even change our clothes after. I even feed him his dubias on a bamboo skewer (not speared I just let them walk on the non-pointy end :wink: ) so most of the time they don't touch anything in his tank before he eats them.

Its sucky! I'm starting to feel obsessed with poop! He came from Petsmart totally infected and he just hasn't been able to get his levels down on his own. Luckily I work from home and all the beardies except one are near me. So my obsessive poop checking is done everytime I walk by. Even my son is like "Mom there's a poop" and I'm snapping to attention cleaners in hand. If there was a Girl Scout badge for poop patrol I would have it!

Private Poop is ready for duty Sir!

 

[jacody]

My little dragon, Omni, is 17 grams and the vet is medicating her w/ Albon & Panacur. Basically he's said the coccidia count is as high as he's ever seen and the drugs aren't going to be what ultimately kills her....