hello gonna get a dragon soon. any suggestions

[clintgiles1973]

hello all

My family and I are thinking of getting a beaded dragon.
we already are involved in salt water coral/fish hobby but these little guys (bearded dragons) have my wifey in a tiffy and she wants one bad...lol

myself and the kids also are very interested,they are so kool looking .

but befor i go buy another pet set-up

i was curious of the do's and dont's ,so to speak.

i am ofcourse gonna do as much research as possible for myself,but some advice from you seasoned vets of this hobby would be greatly appreciated.

there is a 20-30 gallon tank im looking at getting . it comes with the lights and others things that escape my mind right now.

please let me know if this is a good idea or not?

anytips would not go unnoticed.

thanks Clint.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Hi Clint,
Welcome aboard and Kudos on doing the research 1st.
Stay away from kits the sell everything in 1 pack. It rarely ever works to your advantage. As far as supplies go such as bulbs ect ect, http://www.petmountain.com is probably the cheapest for uvb lighting. Im not a big link poster so im sure my friend Janie is going to overwhelm you with info, but everything she sets up is good information.
When you are ready to buy there are some great people on here with babys forsale.
However being a breeder myself I want to plug my poopers...lol, but whoever you buy from on here if you do, you will be getting an excellent pooper.
Tom

 

[clintgiles1973]

ok no kits it is...

what type of lighting should i buy?
i also see the diy section,would it be good to build my own home for a dragon or should i stick with the aquariums?

I learned the hard way when i started the salt water hobby to not buy junk anymore.....lol

thanks for hello and tips Tom.

 

[fresnowitte]

Hello Clint and Family & Welcome to BD.org!

Let's start with the enclosure if you start with a 40gal breeder size viv you will save money in the long run as you won't be needing to buy a larger one right away. As a matter of fact an adult can live in a 40gal being you give them some out of enclosure time once in awhile. An it isn't to big for a baby normally if it seems to be just put a divider in and block part off until baby gets bigger if you end up with a baby.

UVB is very very important for beardies an not all UVB bulbs are recommended for beardies regardless of what the packaging may say. There are only a few that actually put out enough UVB for beardies. If you were to choose the tube style bulb you would want it to be a Reptisun 10.0. Or you could use a MVB(which can only be used on 40gal or larger). Stay far away from any compact, coil, ESU, Reptiglo, or generic bulbs they can all cause health issues with bearded dragons. Never use any colored lights as they are harmful to beardies eye health...this means not at night either. Here's a link to where you can purchase the Reptisun 10.0 online very reasonable;
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html
This type of bulb should stretch the entire length of the enclosure.
The Megaray is the best MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulb) I currently am using a Exo-terra Solar Glo 125watt...I have use the 100watt PowerSun in the past but this bulb is having issue currently so I don't recommend it.

Your thermometer is a very important tool as temps are most important with beardies. The stick on dial or tape strips are not accurate they can be up to 20* in reading an you really can not get a basking temp with it as you need to take that temp right on the basking spot. I personally love the infrared temp guns I purchase a small one at Harbor Freight Tools for $9.99. Or the other thermometer that we suggest is a digital probe thermometer.

Substrate is a very misleading item when it comes to pet stores...they're just trying to make a sell. Particle substrates are not recommended by beardie owners because it can cause impaction...meaning beardies tongue everything and will ingest some unfortunately even though the packages say that it may be digestible it is not.
Plus the liquidy residue left from fecal matter is bacteria which the particle substrates work great for harboring so you end up with parasites no matter how clean you keep your enclosure. "Like a Litter Box."

Supplements are very important as well I personally recommend Repcal brand. You will need a multivitamin and a calcium supplement. The calcium supplement should have D3 in it unless and only unless you use a MVB in which case you use the calcium without D3.

Diet also very important here's a wonderful chart that is color coded as to if and how often certain things can be fed, http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html


Again Welcome Aboard!

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Thanks Barb, you beat Janie to it...lol I admit I was being lazy

 

[zebraflavencs]

Tom is oh so correct. SO sit back, relax and let my fingers do the talking
Okay I would suggest no smaller than a 40 gallon breeder tank, 36"x 18" x18". This is the smallest that an adult can be housed in.

Now you have two choices for lighting, either the florescent tube ( Reptisun 10.0-link:http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html
This should be within 4-8" of the baby for optimum effect.

Here is what calcium to be offered 5 days a week on salads and insects:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105551/rep-cal-ultrafine-powder-calcium-with-vitamin-d3.html

Or you can use on a stand a Mercury Vapor Bulb ( this is the #1 world wide:
http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-sb-100-watt-self-ballasted-flood-uvb-lamp.php)
This is a great bulb ! It offers both heat and great uvb for your dragons' health.
If you do decide on this instead of a tube, then keep in mind you need a 4 day "burn" in time, just like the German Halides over a reef tank need. Keep away from direct rays both human and reptile during this period. You will want a minimum distance to be 12". If you can arrange to have the fixture ( need one rated for around 250+*F) to be able to raise it up, then that would be fine.
Though if you try it out the first week in an empty enclosure, you can monitor the temps and find that sweet spot in distance.

This is the calcium to use with this Bulb:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105556/rep-cal-ultrafine-calcium-without-vitamin-d3.html
This is also to be offered 5 days a week on first insect feeding and on daily salad.

Here is the vitamins to be offered 2 days a week, on first insect and day long salad. Oh don't use in conjunction with the calcium, separate days:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105550/rep-cal-herptivite-multivitamin.html
You can use this with either uvb.

Now, you will want to offer the best diet for your baby, so this is an excellent guide( whomever does the shopping might want to print this out in color):
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
Use only in Green for daily staples, Black is reserved for 1-2 times a week snacks.

Okay we have the viv size, two choices for uvb, and all the supplements as well as diet.
Let's talk about substrate. This is a huge issue with so many. I'll let you do the research and decide ultimately what you feel is best.
All babies under a year old should be on non-particulate substrate. I use tile:

This is textured ceramic tile. It is easy to clean and keep clean, and it will help little nails stay little Nice and filed down.

You can also use non adhesive shelf liners and reptile carpets. Both will need laundering weekly so I would get at least two similar lengths.
There is also paper towels and butcher paper.

Now we want to offer a nice space for running around, as well as a high place for the youngster to climb on, as well as a basking spot. You can use a piece of Hard wood from the yard, if you debark it and then bake it in the oven @ 250*F for an hour. This will kill bacteria and parasites. Or you can opt for a pet store stick. I have used Mondo wood in the past, makes a lovely presentation, and plenty of scrabbling places !

You can construct a simple basking spot with some tiles that are piled up roughly so there are "steps" up to the top. Just make sure you adhere those well, as dragons are pretty strong animals. I use 100% silicone, and allow a 48 hour cure time. One other indication that the cure is done, when you no longer smell the ammonia odor that silicone has.

Have I overwhelmed you yet ? I hope not. It will take some time to absorb all this information, and I still have some to impart.

Temps are terribly important to the health of your dragon. You will want to get a probe digital thermometer or a temp gun ( for checking automotive engine temps) for accurate readings.

Your basking should be 105-110*F, warm side should be air temp range 85-95*F, and the cool side should be around 75-85*F. If over night temps don't drop below 65*F in your home, there is no need for additional heat at night.

Well there it all is. You have the basic information to get started. If you want to construct a palace as a forever home, then feel free to pm me, as I have pictorial step by step instructions of the first enclosure I built.

Welcome to the Family !
Janie.

 

[fresnowitte]

I figured it was my turn. :wink: As I have been lazy lately on helping.

Hey Tom I might have been quicker but Janie was more thorough.

 

[zebraflavencs]

So she did ! That's okay, we tend to overlap occasionally, with the same information Thanks lov ! I try
Janie.
Oh and when you are ready for a baby, I highly recommend Toms' babies, as well as Lance's ( twobeardieguy) and come September, Brians'(spyder). I know that Jeff (citrusdragon) has a few left as well. I have two of Jeff's babies, though they are a hefty 6 months old

 

[bbschempf]

just a suggestions, if you are serious about getting a beardie i suggest that you get all of your supplies ahead of time and set it to make sure that he has proper temp on his basking spot. if you have to be moving the lights around while your bearded is int he tank it can be very stressful. the temp probe in my tank is my beardies arch enemy and he gives me the stink eye while im taking the temp. often when i put the probe on his rock or elsware he will run over it and lay right on it making it hard to get a good reading.

another thing to think about, he will be eating tons of crikets. mine eats about 20$ a week in PW and i give him about 5-10 bucks worth of crickets from my local pet store. although it is really fun to watch them eat and is an activity in of itself, it can become very costly and you must be able to make buy live feeders for him part of your budget for the first year or two.

 

[clintgiles1973]

thank you very much,everybody for all the help

i just got back from a local breeder in my home town and had a good talking with him aswell.

he has some babies from his pair (sunfire/citrus) they were awesome...i wanted to take one home right then..my son thought we were...lol
that was hard telling him we have to wait..lol

the other question i have is about the temperatures.

here at my house in the summer i have to keep the ac on in the house to keep it cool so my fish tank does not exceed 82 degree's
in the winter i get away with no thermometer in my tank because the heat in the house keeps my tank at around 78-80 all winter long


now when we get a dragon,im not sure how my ac will affect the temperatures needed in his dwellings ....does anyone here have this problem.

what i will do when i set up in about a month from now.
i'll see how the ac will affect his home,and adjust temperatures accordingly.


thanks again everyone who replied fro the help and tips.
i'll look foward to talking again with many of ya when we get set-up and show some pictures of our soon to be new family member.

we have already named him.......Duncan the dragon.
lol

 

[fresnowitte]

Clint once you have your enclosure set up if you need additional heat to get the proper basking temp then you may use a bright white halogen household bulb directly over the basking spot and right next to the UVB bulb. (You don't have to use an expensive "Basking Bulb" as it does the same thing.)
As to which wattage will work for you this is something you will have to play with as for us in warmer climates would need smaller wattage where those in colder climates would need larger wattage. Same would be for the ambient temps in ones house the cooler the ambient temp the larger wattage you may need.

Was that what you were looking for?

 

[fresnowitte]

I forgot to mention something. If you like to keep your home below 65* at night you will need additional night time heat for your beardie. I do not recommend a heat pad unless you plan on putting it on the side or back of enclosure, beardies do not feel heat from the bottom an if the heat mat malfunctions it could burn your beardie. Instead a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) would work best as it screws into a light fixture and puts out no light so beardies sleep time is not interrupted.

 

[clintgiles1973]

ok so a household light fixture is ok?
like a table side lamp or something like that for a heat source

and definately a uvb fixture aswell.

 

[fresnowitte]

I usually use one of the small hoods for the extra bulb as it is a ceramic fixture which I just feel safer about...being I live in an old farmhouse with old wiring and have 8 enclosures full time and several temperary ones for babies.