Hello and thank you

[MisterD83]

I'm Derek, I have my first bearded dragons. 4 of them in fact, I have cared for other lizards before, my favorite was the tree monitor.


Mainly I'm looking for advice as I'm getting these guys / gals from a person who had dreams of "get rich quick"

Having had an exotic lizard before, i knew to do my research on these guys' natural life. I know they are omnivores, dayternal, love to dig, and are friends with Crocodile Dundee.

For some reason, the store that sold the person the (supposed) 1 male and 3 female set set him up with a nocturnal basking light, a UVb light that's bad for them and a habitat that's likely too small (roughly 20 gal long dimensions).

The only thing they sold him right compared to the care sheets I read was a vinyl mat for the substrate, which I switched out to a pet store sand to allow their digging nature. Yes, I'm monitoring them so I'll know if one gets impacted.

Before I get the "you have to do this / that' advice please keep in mind my resources, space / money, may not accommodate the ideas immediately.

This pic is from when the tank was first setup in my apartment

This is from last night (4-1-14) when I was watching one of them "re-arrange" the substrate. their hind legs are powerful!

 

[CooperDragon]

They are known to terrorize kittens for some reason. Some great youtube videos out there. Thank you for trying your best in caring for these guys. They are great pets and amazing animals. I'd love to see pics. You can upload them to a free picture hosting site such as tinypic or imageshack and then copy the URL to the picture using the Img tags in the forum. Please let me know if you have any questions or have any good stories to tell so far!

 

[MisterD83]

Pics added to the original post.

My only story is how quick they can be when they want to be. Was holding the dark one in the pics and all of a sudden he wanted to explore something and almost jumped off the couch before I caught him.

Thank you

 

[CooperDragon]

They are VERY curious little guys. They seem to be faster when they're smaller. Definitely have to keep a close eye on them at that age!

 

[MisterD83]

Do beardies usually lay on one another while basking if more than one are in a tank? I've heard how territorial they can be but I'm not seeing it, yet anyways, but at the same times I've seen mollies (fish) schooling with other fish that should have considered them food.

Could they be siblings and not allowed to breed? I dont want to say it, but I have little faith in most of the staff at the reptile store in my county, but that is a rant for a different thread.

 

[CooperDragon]

When several are in a tank I've seen them stack up. From what I know it's a ranking system of sorts or a sign of dominance. It's all about territory rather than friendliness. Siblings will breed too. They don't really have a barrier in that way. Again, as far as I know.

 

[MisterD83]

At least I won't have to worry about tooth and nail fighting for now. I know I still need a bigger and more tanks, but I can put that further down the road correct?

my biggest concern is the bulbs, the UVb is a compact floresecent (not the spiral type) and the red basking. I heard about the mercury vapor, do they last longer than standard UV tube lights?

 

[CooperDragon]

Yeah since they're young and all about the same age its OK for a little while. As for UVB I don't know much about mercury vapor bulbs, but I had good luck with ReptiSun 10.0 and that's one of the commonly recommended bulbs on here. You want to replace it every 6 months or so (well before they actually fail) to ensure the best UVB output.

 

[sweetiepie9]

So welcome to our site! And welcome to the world of beardies.

First thing you need to do is remove the sand, it will easily cause problems with their digestive systems as they will lick at everything. Plus it's like them living in a cat litter box, you can't remove all the liquid with the poop, so bacteria tends to grow. So put back the vinyl mat. It's for their own good. They don't need to dig & I've found that only a pregnant female will really want to dig, which is why my 6 dragons are on layers of newspaper, as if they want to dig, they can without any problems. Sand is just too dangerous to have in their tanks.

Are the 4 all babies? You still won't have a lot of time to separate them. I have 2 dragons that have lost fingers and toes as babies because they were together, plus one that has 1/2 a tail. As long as they're fed well, that might not happen. Which brings me to feeding. What are you feeding them and how often? They need calcium powder with D3 dusted on their crickets (I figured you might be using crickets, as they're cheaper) 5x/wk and vit/min dusted 2x/wk. This is really important for their bone growth.

They also need baths as they get absorb water from their vent. So baths at least every 2nd day.

The UVB in there has to be removed, it will cause eye problems, if not something worse. So you're going to have to get a UVB ReptiSUN 10.0 tube with an inside the tank mount. That would do well. As for basking, a household bulb will do, but you'll still need a temperature guage to get the right temps for basking. And they are all territorial, so getting on top of each other means the one on the top is getting all the UVB/basking warmth, which they need to digest.

You said you had $ constraints, are you working? There are ways to get cheaper tanks for them. If there is a Petco in your area, they are having $1/gallon tank sales right now. It's always best to get them separated & in their own tanks/set ups as soon as possible. They're solitary creatures. And that's the expensive part, is getting all the UVB lights for them. http://www.petmountain.com & Amazon.com have lights for less expensive, if you can buy online.

This friend that got these beardies, why would they think beardies would be a "get rich quick scheme? There's no such thing as get rich quick with beardies as it costs a fortune to care for the adults, then the babies, then the selling. Maybe it's time for your friend to help you out with the set ups.

So for now, get rid of the sand, put the original substrate back & get a good UVB. Remove the red light, they don't need light at night to sleep, it disturbs their sleep patterns.

I've been rescuing dragons for 7 years and as such have accumulated a lot of experience in dealing with them. So any questions, just ask, k?

If you need help sexing them, I'll help you with that, too.

Good luck!

 

[MisterD83]

Unfortunately for household bulbs, I only have the spiral tube type which doesnt generate enough heat to use as a basking light. (using the rule of "If i can touch a bulb minutes after turning it off its not generating heat")

I looked into MVBs and they seem to be highly recommended for UV and I believe heat. just got to do a price and hardware comparison now.

 

[sweetiepie9]

Good luck, I've been using MVBs for years, Power Suns, but there are a lot of others. The Solar Glo is good, too, comes in 125W though, which might be too much heat for your little guys. You never said how old they were or how big they are. That makes a difference on how long they can stay together without nibbling.

Also what are you feeding them? Baths are also important.

 

[MisterD83]

I haven't said an age because I do not know. I want to say my bro got them in September, but I don't think that's accurate. their size is about the length of my palm from the tip of their snout to the start of their tail - they are 20 - 40 1/2" crickets daily as a group, if that helps.

I too believe 125W will be too hot for them at current, I suspect a 60 - 75 watts will be enough to bump temperature up the 20-30 degrees needed (my apt is kept at 74 except when its cool out) at the 8 inch the light is from the basking spot.

 

[sweetiepie9]

You should check because if they're 5 months old, they're too small. The size you're talking about is for about 3 mo old. And they're not eating enough crickets, either, they should be eating between 20-40 each to get what they need or more. Are you just dumping the crickets in the 20 gallon? You should find a 10 gallon tank or something of that size and feed them each separately so you can know what they're eating.

That's what happens when there isn't enough room. Where do you live? I think it would be best if you find homes for them, as 4 is a lot to handle when you're not in a position to get what they need. I belong to a few rescue groups, so I can help if you want.

Let me know about that. I know they're loveable, as I have 6 and have had more before these 6. I also have 2 geckos. And I live in a 1 bedroom apartment, so you can just imagine, with each in a 40 gallon tank & my big boy Rubio in a 75 gallon tank, how much space I have for myself :lol: But I love them all!

 

[timisimaginary]

Unfortunately for household bulbs, I only have the spiral tube type which doesnt generate enough heat to use as a basking light. (using the rule of "If i can touch a bulb minutes after turning it off its not generating heat")

I looked into MVBs and they seem to be highly recommended for UV and I believe heat. just got to do a price and hardware comparison now.

for less than the price of an MVB alone, you can get a tube UVB light and a cheap flood light for heat. and MVBs are all over the place in the amount of heat and UVB light they put out, the only readily available MVB i've come across with decent UVB output is the Mega Ray, and they don't put out enough heat alone to use as the sole basking light.

i'd reiterate getting the babies off of sand and onto a solid substrate, babies are especially at danger for impaction from sand. you can always provide a dig box with a safer substrate such as alfalfa pellets or millet seed, if they seem to want to dig.

keeping 4 dragons together is risky, even babies. that's the reason there are so many baby dragons with nipped tails and missing toes for sale. personally, i'd agree that rehoming some of these dragons would be a good idea. if money is a concern, multiple dragons is not the way to go. affording one dragon is enough to worry about, 4x the dragons = 4x the cost. better to spend the money making one dragon healthy and happy then spreading it thin over 4 dragons who will not be having their needs met.