hatchling behaviour & tail nipping

[mortitia]

Some of my babies are now about 3 weeks old and today I noticed some behaviour not seen before. They are now headbutting other babies in the belly area or by their feet. At first I thought it was 1 dragon bullying another, but after watching for a while they all seemed to be doing it. Wondered if anyone could explain this behaviour to me.

I am also gutted that 3 of the babies have 'nipped' tails, I may have caused one by dropping the basking rock/hide on it. My second theory was that it may have happened as some of them were going for crickets that had made it into the dark cave area. I have removed this in favour of a tree branch . I then decided that that was too risky so now they only have a rock, a feed dish and a water dish. I have 9 dragons in each 4ft vivarium. I would really hate this to happen again, have I done enough to prevent it? what signs should I be looking for.

It now appears that the 2nd clutch of eggs may be starting to hatch, can someone explain why mine are hatching at around 57 days?

PS anyone considering breeding my babies are going through 2 tubs per viv of crickets a day! Its not been a case of 'remove any that haven't been eaten in 15 mins' more a case of how many crickets can you get in before they STOP eating

Marie x (frustrated 1st time dragon breeder)

 

[diamc]

Hi Marie. Sure sounds like you have a lot of babies already and will have quite a few more mouths to feed. Babies need to be fed all the crickets they can eat in about 15 minutes 3x a day otherwise you will probably get more tail and toe nips. They are voracious eaters.

 

[mortitia]

Hi
As I said they get through a lot of crickets. I'm ordering 1000 at a time and spend most of the day tipping crickets in! I once managed to put in way more than they could manage (they were a bit younger at the time) and was at a loss as to how to catch the extra's. But I found putting some egg carton in the viv caught the spare crickets quite nicely. It's one hell of a learning curve. There have been no tail nips since I took the hide out. I have read that some babies will tail/toe nip another one intentionally! I was just wondering about the head butting behaviour and if there was anything else I needed to know or look out for to prevent it happening in future.

We are now all set up for the second clutch. The first one caught us by surprise at it seemed to be quite early. Once again I am wondering why this is happening

Thanks for your input

Marie x

 

[diamc]

Oh dear, what a job for you trying to catch the uneaten crickets. The egg crate was a good idea. An empty cardboard to a roll of toilet paper or paper towels works well too, they love to hide in those.

I honestly can't tell you anything about the butting, have never heard of that before. Perhaps one of the breeders on here (Tom comes to mind) could help you with that.

Glad to hear things are going better without the hide. Perhaps they thought the ends of the tails were worms? :dontknow:

Good luck with all the babies. :wink:

 

[AHBD]

Hi Marie....it's not at all unusual for the hatching to start at 57 days or even a few days earlier. On the other end of the spectrum, some may not hatch until 70 -80+ days.

There will always be babies that will try to nip a tail or toe, but you decrease the chances greatly by feeding them many times a day and also starting them on greens. My babies are all eating greens by 2-3 weeks of age, they can be enticed by dropping the greens in just like you do the bugs. Just shred the turnip or mustard greens very finely [ collards are good , too but are tough and REALLY need to be shredded ] and also take out the stems. Then drop the greens in like confetti, the movement attracts them and they will pounce. They should start eating them within a week if you try that, and it can be done twice a day.

That way they always feel like they have something to munch on, along with crickets 3-4X daily, and that will keep them happy. The head butting is a bit of a pecking order, slight aggressiveness but it's not a real problem and doesn't usually persist.

Oh, and I would keep the branch in there as well as the rock...they need a lot of basking areas to be content in a group. And one more tip so the crix don't get to hiding before they are eaten is to get a jar or oatmeal container and shake the crix until they are dizzy. Then they are easy pickins' as the wobble around slowly, and they can be powdered with calcium while they are being shaken.

 

[mortitia]

AHBD

Thank you so much for your reply. It's been a steep learning curve, but I am enjoying the journey. There are so many things I need to know. I feel gutted for the poor tail nipped babies, I know I have let them down

I will put the branches back in as they did really like them and they look a little forlorn with just a rock! Should I leave the rock in or take it out?

Most are not eating their greens (orange really, as I am feeding butternut squash) I know that one of them is eating, I can tell by the orange poop! So will try the sprinkling as suggested. I am constantly tipping crickets in (a tube from a cricket keeper) every time.

2nd clutch are now at 56 days, 3 eggs have caved in but no sign of hatching. I have put a little more water in the tubs and taken the lids off. Humidity is at 70%.

Any more information/advise that you or anyone else can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Marie x

 

[mortitia]

HI

I was wondering what would be best. 10 babies in a 2ft viv or 5 babies in a 2ft viv.

Marie x