Gout. high protein/no-insect, temporary diet substitution??

[JalebKackson]

hey guys, first post here!


TL;DR 7 month old female beardy with high uric acid levels and limb swelling. is there a plant-protein I could substitute for insects temporarily? (ex: black beans)


my Beardie's name is Evel (like Knievel)


Age: about 7 MONTHS give or take
Weight: 165g (lost 5g and went stagnant due to current health issue)
Sex: Female (recent blood tests showed high calcium which led the vet to conlcude that she's female)


SETUP:
-75 gal tank
-tile flooring that I cut myself
-reptisun 10.0
-2 ceramic heat emitters
-1 heat lamp
-1 basking branch that she's getting too big for
-1 false rock water dish
-1 8x8 in. pan that I put her food in (I use the pan so the roaches can't invade her space and she could eat at will, she was an extremely shy eater, sometimes would wait 30 min - 1 hour after I walked away to continue eating)


THE PROBLEM v v v v v HIGH URIC ACID, POSSIBLE GOUT
She had swelling in her front left foot and hadn't moved since I left for work. a day after a visit to the vet she developed swelling in right hind foot. took her in for blood work and results were that she has high levels of uric acid.


WHAT I BELIEVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM v v v v v v v
she was eating dubia roaches, I order 1000 at a time from dubia roaches dot com, I've tried to get her to eat veggies, (collard green, mustard green, green bean and red bell pepper mix) but they always dried out before she would eat more than a bite or two.

I strongly believe this is what caused the problem^ high protein, low vitamin/hydration, causing an inability to flush uric acid.

I also believe the roaches became dehydrated and malnourished which may also cause them to build up uric acid levels. she just would eat them so fast and I'm so busy all the time I failed to realize the potential importance of keeping them nourished as well.



VETS ORDERS v v v v v v v
at first we had her on antibiotics, but since blood-work, is now taking ALLOPURINOL 15mg/ml suspension
DOSE: 0.1 ml by mouth 3 times daily via a little soft tip syringe I have to force feed her with
just gave her the first dose about an hour ago.

soaking her in water for 20 min. 1-3 times daily as well



POTENTIAL DIET ALTERNATIVE ? v v v v v v v
I want to know if there is a plant based protein I could give her, I feel like her growth may become stunted due to her illness related lethargy. I've also been led to believe that plant based protein wont build up uric acid.

looking for a plant protein and probably fat as well that I could add to a salad until I have her condition under control

I had the idea of black beans? high protein (keep her growing), high fiber (keep her flowing), high vitamin content, and they kinda resemble the roaches she loves eating. However i'm aware that a great deal of caution and research must go into planning a healthy diet for an animal, especially one thats neither a mammal nor warm blooded like ourselves.

postscript i guess?
She struggles and visibly strains to move (but her determination is admirable). Since my first conclusion was that the swelling was trauma related, I started making her a new basking spot that is much bigger, easier for her to climb to and she can't fall off of. (just waiting for this coat of grout to dry, so I can seal it)


I try so hard to make sure she's happy and healthy and this has me more lost and stressed than my rapidly growing student loan debt.

 

[Terry15]

You could try some Repashy Grub pie. It's a insect protein powder that you mix with boiling water & it sets up like jello. You can cut it up into strips and feed her. I put it in the veggie chopper with applesauce and purée it. That's the only way mine will eat it.

 

[AHBD]

Poor girl, I hope she can recoup ASAP. The Allopurinol is the right med. for her, definitely get off the antibiotx if she's still on.

Ask the vet for Oxbow Critical Care [ or order online ] That will be a good food to syringe -feed. The grub pie is also a good alternative but you can mix a good bit of water with the Oxbow to increase hydration. Offer plain water as well.

High calcium is not always indicative of an animal being female. If you can arch her tail up high [ think of an excited dog with tail in the air ] and post pics here I can probably tell you the gender.

 

[JalebKackson]

You could try some Repashy Grub pie. It's a insect protein powder that you mix with boiling water & it sets up like jello. You can cut it up into strips and feed her. I put it in the veggie chopper with applesauce and purée it. That's the only way mine will eat it.

Thanks for the reply!

I don't think that an insect-based supplement would help the uric acid problem

 

[JalebKackson]

Poor girl, I hope she can recoup ASAP. The Allopurinol is the right med. for her, definitely get off the antibiotx if she's still on.

Ask the vet for Oxbow Critical Care [ or order online ] That will be a good food to syringe -feed. The grub pie is also a good alternative but you can mix a good bit of water with the Oxbow to increase hydration. Offer plain water as well.

High calcium is not always indicative of an animal being female. If you can arch her tail up high [ think of an excited dog with tail in the air ] and post pics here I can probably tell you the gender.

I've tried sexing her this way, and the vet did as well, and we both concluded that it's most likely male. (vet said Evel has large pores which can be indicative of a male) however the same vet said after seeing the high calcium that it's most likely female.

maybe I should rename her Caitlyn to be safe.

ill post a pic as soon as my phones charged enough

 

[JalebKackson]

 

[kingofnobbys]

May not be the insects causing this high blood calcium , it may be due to the combined effects of the following :
>> 10% UVB T5HO tube too close (body wants to form natural vitD3)
>> ingested VitD3 fortified calcium and vitamin powders used excessively
in a nutshell , too much vitD3 --> --> vitamin D toxicity ( Hypervitaminosis D3 ) which limits the metabolisation of dietary calcium causing a buildup of calcium in your dragon's blood (hypercalcemia).
Unless the vet goes looking for it, is easy missing.
See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=233592

Did the vet test for serum VitD3 ?
Did the vet test for uric acid in blood ?

 

[Skipper7]

Weening off of bugs is unlikely to harm your beardie. Healthy, strong brandies can be raised with a single bug feeding per day.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Weening off of bugs is unlikely to harm your beardie. Healthy, strong brandies can be raised with a single bug feeding per day.

I STRONGLY DISAGREE with this claim. Hatchlings and juveniles REQUIRE MUCH HIGHER quantities of LIVE insect protein and AT LEAST TWO live insect feeds PER DAY.
Their needs change as they become subadults and eventually mature & fully grown and developed adults.

 

[AHBD]

Sorry I missed your pic of the gender reveal. As it is from that angle and with all the dark markings it's hard to tell. Can you post a couple more and arch the tail just a bit more ?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Are you using the Reptisun 10 tube bulb or the T5 high output tube bulb?
Do you happen to have a copy of the blood tests I could look at also?
A good non insect protein powder that can help out with supplementation of protein is
Alfalfa powder. It has no purine which is known for being harder on the kidneys to be
broken down. You can try substituting that for awhile. Roaches are very high in protein
so that could contribute to gout. You could try a few silkworms, which would be more
gentle on the system.
The allopurinol is the best medication you can be giving her for gout. Black cherry juice
extract is helpful, also.

Tracie