Giving breeding advice

[spyder79]

Just a rant if it needs to be moved or locked that is fine. But over the past few weeks i have been seeing a increase in people that do not know what they are talking about trying to give breeding advice. In all honesty I am not sure what goes through someone's head that makes them think they should give advice on something that they know nothing about in the least. But here is the point of my post.

If you have no experience to speak of do not give breeding advice or care advice THANKS

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Stands up and gives Brian a round of applause! Great post.

 

[lacy_black]

*cheers* I agree!

 

[pudden318]

wooo hoooo Brian i posted something similar last night

Reply with quoteEdit postReport this postRe: Is it Me??? ( A discussion on breeding )
by pudden318 on Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:40 am

Im BUMPING this

You know it was just brought to my attention about all the breeding questions im the home page tonight. I wish there was some way to post this right on the top of the home page. All the help questions, o no i put my male and female together now what? NOW WHAT? You should have did the research before you made that mistake. Ok so a few nice people on here try to help these people out, and you know what happens they get ticked when you give them advice they dont want to hear. This is so frustrating. Im so sick of hearing about all the money that is to be made. A good breeder doesnt do it for the money but for the love of the animal. It sickens me to see YOUNG kids putting their pets at risk because they think they can make a quick buck. Then what, they cant sell the babies r afford to feed them and they wind up being on craigslist. As a few people have already posted the money that is put up to start breeding is no where near what you are gonna make off of a clutch. The money i have invested so far into my dragons is no where near what im gonna need by next summer to even think about begining to breed. Im not getting into these animals because of the money involved but for the love i have for them, these dragons are one of the only things keeping moving right now. Most mornings it hurts just to get out of bed, but i do, i get up every morning clean 12 vivs, feed 12 dragons, then maintain all my feeder tanks. Am i doing it because i see dollar signs in the future, NO. I do it for the cute little expressions i get for a nummie worm, are the look of a baby hunting a turk, or my most fav is the nightly beardie wiggle when they are all nice and comfie snuggled with me in bed. I guess the point im trying to make is leave the breeding to the breeders and just love your pet unconditionally, dont risk their lives over something stupid.

 

[spyder79]

great post Renee

This is something that has been grating at my nerves for a while now. And you all know im not the most patient guy in the world lol. Granted every year we get a lot of "one time" breeders that think its a great idea to make money and then you never hear from them again cause they get very overwhelmed and sell off their entire stock.

So im used to the multitude of newbie breeders but now these newbie breeders seem to be trying to give advice on topics that they have no hands on knowledge of. If you have never bred a dragon dont give advice on nutrient care for a gravid female. If you have never incubated eggs dont put out to know all the ins and outs of incubating eggs, if you have never cared for 30 or more hatchlings then dont give advice on caring for a clutch of hatchlings. I dont understand how its so hard to not give advice on a topic you have no real info on. It just bugs the piss out of me to see one newbie give breeding advice to another newbie when newbie one just asked 3 hours ago why their male keeps chasing their female around the tank that they both live in (or some other question that the answer is exceptionally obvious to if you knew the first thing about bearded dragons or reptiles in general)

K im off the soap box now.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Ditto

 

[disgruntled]

Wow... I have been lurking on this site for almost a year now, and I really feel like I need to respond to this. I have had many questions about breeding and about husbandry in general during that time. However, I have never posted a question, for I know the answer I would get from most of the experienced breeders on here. It would go something like this:

"Are you sure you are ready for breeding? It's expensive, and irresponsible for anyone other than those who are already doing it because of everything involved. You are obviously not ready for this."

Or,

"Google search is your friend".

So that leaves those with less experience to answer the questions on here. I'm not trying to start anything on here. I realize and appreciate all the answers that you have in fact given. All I'm saying is that there are about 900 posts in this forum alone. Do a search for "Lay Box" and you come up with 361 topics on it. To someone who really doesn't know what a lay box is or why it is needed, it can be overwhelming sifting through all that information. I know it was for me at first. I have spent the better part of my life, breeding and raising a multitude of animals, from birds, to dogs, to fish etc. I know that there is a lot that can go into breeding. I know that you should not expect to make money, or even break even for quite some time, if ever. But with the tone of some of those on this forum I can see why so many people give up, not necessarily about breeding, but about getting help from this forum. If there is even one thing wrong with your setup, plans, or experience it is almost like a witch hunt. I know that you all care about the well being of the animals involved, but don't you think that a better course would be to work with the members asking questions to change what you perceive to be a mistake rather than persecuting them over it?

I know that I have probably hurt some feelings, and for that I apologize. But for those who wish to argue that these types of things don't happen, I would refer you to the following topics

http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123833
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123345
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123628
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123630
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123428
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123239

And that is just on the first page. If I were to go back through all 18 pages, I'm sure I could find more.

So, I would like to invite you all to come down off your soap boxes and realize that everyone starts somewhere. Teaching is a great form of learning. If they happen to get something wrong, chime in with the correct answer. Otherwise, be thankful that they are saving you the keystrokes needed to give an actual answer. I will go back to lurking now, and enjoying all the responses to the questions on this forum whom ever they may be from.

 

[spyder79]

Whats funny is each of those links you picked out where posted by people that were rude and felt they knew everything and when they were given information they responded rudely to those that gave them info. And if you dont like the way people handle things on here why would you join the forum hmm?

Its not a witch hunt its just people do not understand the rigors that come from raising 30-150 baby dragons from one pairing. And weather you like it or not is of no nevermind to me. I know that what i have posted is correct cause if you know nothing about a topic you should not try to train others on it.

Lets put it into perspective

(not knowing your profession so if you are a heart surgeon sorry)
But lets say someone comes up to you that is in medical school ok. They have plans to become a heart surgeon in the future. You are the english teacher or some crap like that. They start asking you questions about how to properly replace a heart valve. Would you, as a english teacher with no training in heart surgery, begin to try and pull some advice out of your a$$ for them? I certainly hope not.

 

[disgruntled]

Whats funny is each of those links you picked out where posted by people that were rude and felt they knew everything and when they were given information they responded rudely to those that gave them info. And if you dont like the way people handle things on here why would you join the forum hmm?

Its not a witch hunt its just people do not understand the rigors that come from raising 30-150 baby dragons from one pairing. And weather you like it or not is of no nevermind to me. I know that what i have posted is correct cause if you know nothing about a topic you should not try to train others on it.

Lets put it into perspective

(not knowing your profession so if you are a heart surgeon sorry)
But lets say someone comes up to you that is in medical school ok. They have plans to become a heart surgeon in the future. You are the english teacher or some crap like that. They start asking you questions about how to properly replace a heart valve. Would you, as a english teacher with no training in heart surgery, begin to try and pull some advice out of your ***** for them? I certainly hope not.

Lets explore your analogy for a second. Let's just say that I am an english teacher, and a student asks a question about a bypass operation. Just for fun, lets say that question is something along the lines of "Would it be okay to use a rusty knife in a bypass surgery?" Now, I may not know EVERYTHING about this particular surgical procedure, but one thing I certainly do know is that you would need to use a sterile knife to prevent infection. Knowing this, should I sit back and not answer this student? Should I tell them to go online and "Google" it? Should I discourage them from becoming a heart surgeon because of the "rigors" involved? I for one, would take the approach of sharing what knowledge I have on the subject and then if they are in need of more information help them find it.

I have read a lot of your responses to questions and know that you know what you are doing. But if someone else knows the answer to a question, what is the harm of providing an answer? If it is wrong, I'm sure you will jump right in and correct them.

 

[spyder79]

Whats funny is each of those links you picked out where posted by people that were rude and felt they knew everything and when they were given information they responded rudely to those that gave them info. And if you dont like the way people handle things on here why would you join the forum hmm?

Its not a witch hunt its just people do not understand the rigors that come from raising 30-150 baby dragons from one pairing. And weather you like it or not is of no nevermind to me. I know that what i have posted is correct cause if you know nothing about a topic you should not try to train others on it.

Lets put it into perspective

(not knowing your profession so if you are a heart surgeon sorry)
But lets say someone comes up to you that is in medical school ok. They have plans to become a heart surgeon in the future. You are the english teacher or some crap like that. They start asking you questions about how to properly replace a heart valve. Would you, as a english teacher with no training in heart surgery, begin to try and pull some advice out of your ***** for them? I certainly hope not.

Lets explore your analogy for a second. Let's just say that I am an english teacher, and a student asks a question about a bypass operation. Just for fun, lets say that question is something along the lines of "Would it be okay to use a rusty knife in a bypass surgery?" Now, I may not know EVERYTHING about this particular surgical procedure, but one thing I certainly do know is that you would need to use a sterile knife to prevent infection. Knowing this, should I sit back and not answer this student? Should I tell them to go online and "Google" it? Should I discourage them from becoming a heart surgeon because of the "rigors" involved? I for one, would take the approach of sharing what knowledge I have on the subject and then if they are in need of more information help them find it.

I have read a lot of your responses to questions and know that you know what you are doing. But if someone else knows the answer to a question, what is the harm of providing an answer? If it is wrong, I'm sure you will jump right in and correct them.

I cant get over your inability to understand where this post comes from. These are not 'common sense' questions people are trying to answer. These are typically specialized breeding questions that someone who just threw a male and female in a cage together the night before without doing any research on their own thinks they can answer. I actually saw one post where a person told another member "oh after she lays her eggs she needs to go right back in with the male so she can cycle more eggs"
that is not just wrong thats animal cruelty bro.
Im not going to argue this point with you. You are going on a tangent that isnt even what this topic pertained to. If you have problems with me or any other breeder and the way we respond to posts either PM us or take it to off topic cause the responses you are posting here are not well thought out and are specifically being typed with the hopes of causing arguements. Its exceptionally obvious you joined just too post on here and hopefully insight a heated debate. And im not going to fuel it for you i dont need to. Have a good night.

 

[vickson420]

Just a reminder before things get out of hand.Please keep it polite and remember forum policies when posting.
Thank you
Vicky

 

[disgruntled]

Whats funny is each of those links you picked out where posted by people that were rude and felt they knew everything and when they were given information they responded rudely to those that gave them info. And if you dont like the way people handle things on here why would you join the forum hmm?

Its not a witch hunt its just people do not understand the rigors that come from raising 30-150 baby dragons from one pairing. And weather you like it or not is of no nevermind to me. I know that what i have posted is correct cause if you know nothing about a topic you should not try to train others on it.

Lets put it into perspective

(not knowing your profession so if you are a heart surgeon sorry)
But lets say someone comes up to you that is in medical school ok. They have plans to become a heart surgeon in the future. You are the english teacher or some crap like that. They start asking you questions about how to properly replace a heart valve. Would you, as a english teacher with no training in heart surgery, begin to try and pull some advice out of your ***** for them? I certainly hope not.

Lets explore your analogy for a second. Let's just say that I am an english teacher, and a student asks a question about a bypass operation. Just for fun, lets say that question is something along the lines of "Would it be okay to use a rusty knife in a bypass surgery?" Now, I may not know EVERYTHING about this particular surgical procedure, but one thing I certainly do know is that you would need to use a sterile knife to prevent infection. Knowing this, should I sit back and not answer this student? Should I tell them to go online and "Google" it? Should I discourage them from becoming a heart surgeon because of the "rigors" involved? I for one, would take the approach of sharing what knowledge I have on the subject and then if they are in need of more information help them find it.

I have read a lot of your responses to questions and know that you know what you are doing. But if someone else knows the answer to a question, what is the harm of providing an answer? If it is wrong, I'm sure you will jump right in and correct them.

I cant get over your inability to understand where this post comes from. These are not 'common sense' questions people are trying to answer. These are typically specialized breeding questions that someone who just threw a male and female in a cage together the night before without doing any research on their own thinks they can answer. I actually saw one post where a person told another member "oh after she lays her eggs she needs to go right back in with the male so she can cycle more eggs"
that is not just wrong thats animal cruelty bro.
Im not going to argue this point with you. You are going on a tangent that isnt even what this topic pertained to. If you have problems with me or any other breeder and the way we respond to posts either PM us or take it to off topic cause the responses you are posting here are not well thought out and are specifically being typed with the hopes of causing arguements. Its exceptionally obvious you joined just too post on here and hopefully insight a heated debate. And im not going to fuel it for you i dont need to. Have a good night.

I would like to state, that I am not trying to cause an argument. I just don't want members who know the answer to a question to be dissuaded from sharing their knowledge just because of the fear of being attacked. I remember the post to which you are referring. You are correct in saying that it was the wrong advice to give. However, I have known people who have been breeding for sometime to say that calcisand is the best thing for baby beardies. Would you say that since it came from an experienced breeder that I should follow that advice? I should hope not. Both of those questions are far from "highly specialized questions". Anyone who has spent anytime researching would know the answer to either one of those questions.

I'm sorry if I came off as being argumentative. That was not my intention. I have nothing but respect to the breeders out there who take the time to educate the rest of us. But since there are so few of those breeders out there, doesn't it make sense for the rest of us to help fill in the gaps?

 

[lacy_black]

I really have to agree with Brian, tho i'm guilty of it myself, those of us who haven't bred and properly hatched multiple clutches should leave most of the answer giving chances to those who have. BUT at the same time I do give answers, without being 1 of the true breeders, but I also tend to repeat what i've read from the true breeders. I think i've repeated Brians own words a time or two :lol:

As always people should IMHO do as much READING first, yes there's alot but what's the all fired rush unless you've already screwed up and had the dragons together, then ask questions if they can't find a solid answer. I personally have a bad urge to slap a certain 12 year old who is on this site as he's determined to spread the wrong answers even tho he's been given the right answers multiple times.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Morning D,
I freely admit I skimmed most of this post back and forth with Brian,
Im sure you may be someone that has already asked for help, hence the name. If im wrong my apologies.
Most of the questions that I get via pm or email are not prep questions, but more on the lines of OMG what do I do??
There are people on here breeding dragons 2 small, not healthy enough and wonder why established breeders get mad at them when they ask questions to fix the damage that a simple google or forum search could have prevented. I cant speak for the others, but that is my beef with all the questions I see.
I freely admit I got into breeding by ignorance and accident. That being said I took the time to learn the basics through google and simply reading the posts on the forum. I didnt join this forum till I was up and running full steam. Keep in mind anytime you read a post its ussually the tip of the iceburg, ALOT of discussion goes on via PM. Most people ask for quick fixes and info. When it conficts with what their mothers brothers uncles, cousins, pet shops stockboy said they get defensive.
I have helped many people with gravid females, hatched babies, as well as sick animals. However I will stick to my addage that google is still your friend. I built TND Dragons on it so I know it works.
Tom
TND Dragons
AKA
TheFatman.

 

[spyder79]

Morning D,
I freely admit I skimmed most of this post back and forth with Brian,
Im sure you may be someone that has already asked for help, hence the name. If im wrong my apologies.
Most of the questions that I get via pm or email are not prep questions, but more on the lines of OMG what do I do??
There are people on here breeding dragons 2 small, not healthy enough and wonder why established breeders get mad at them when they ask questions to fix the damage that a simple google or forum search could have prevented. I cant speak for the others, but that is my beef with all the questions I see.
I freely admit I got into breeding by ignorance and accident. That being said I took the time to learn the basics through google and simply reading the posts on the forum. I didnt join this forum till I was up and running full steam. Keep in mind anytime you read a post its ussually the tip of the iceburg, ALOT of discussion goes on via PM. Most people ask for quick fixes and info. When it conficts with what their mothers brothers uncles, cousins, pet shops stockboy said they get defensive.
I have helped many people with gravid females, hatched babies, as well as sick animals. However I will stick to my addage that google is still your friend. I built TND Dragons on it so I know it works.
Tom
TND Dragons
AKA
TheFatman.

preach it brother preach it lol.
If people saw how much time i have put into people via email on helping them care for and raise and breed dragons after their OMG moment it would be surprising. I only wish i could figure out how to charge a consultant fee lmao.