Getting stuck on his back?

[NorbertTheDino]

Okay so this is new.... We got Norbert a couple of months ago and ever since, he has had tail rot and swollen feet (I suspect gout), and now he seems to have another issue. We are giving him adequate lighting, but he walks unnaturally, as if his feet either hurt or can't move properly. MBD wouldn't make much sense, seeing that his lighting and supplements are what he needs. His ankles are swollen, which might be what it is. Anyways, when I turn off his lights for him to go to sleep, I go downstairs, eat dinner, go upstairs, and somehow he's at the bottom of his cage flipped on his back with an angry dragon beard. I'm not sure if this has happened to any of you before, but I honestly feel very, very bad for him. I'm not sure what's causing him to not be able to flip back on his stomach, mostly because I've seen him do it before. I've moved his hammocks in a way that would keep him from flipping on his back, but it still happens. This might be normal and I'm overreacting, but its just so sad because it happens on a regular basis right before bedtime, and he always seems in distress when it happens. Any information would help.

 

[KarrieRee]

Please post pics of Norbert-- and no flipping on the back is not normal ---
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post
What is his diet?
Karre

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Please post pics of Norbert-- and no flipping on the back is not normal ---
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post
What is his diet?
Karre

His diet consists of mostly dubias, crickets and collard/dandelion greens and sometimes bok choy, and occasionally superworms, mealworms and waxworms. I coat them in calcium with D3 in it. I think it's by Fluker's? I'll go take a couple of pictures of him and his current setup.

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Please post pics of Norbert-- and no flipping on the back is not normal ---
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post
What is his diet?
Karre

His diet consists of mostly dubias, crickets and collard/dandelion greens and sometimes bok choy, and occasionally superworms, mealworms and waxworms. I'll go take a couple of pictures of him and his current setup.

I apologize for the bad quality, but in a couple of the pictures you can see his swollen ankles. His beard has also been black since this morning and I have no idea why. His tail is also shorter than average because the end withered and fell off a few days ago. Apart from that, he's pretty healthy and might even be a little underweight. He's been eating a lot less than usual and I think it might be because of his oncoming shed or even brumation, although I'm not sure if it starts this early. The picture of his tank also makes his hammocks seem much higher up then they actually are, and the teddy bear is there just in case he falls or gets stuck on his back again.

 

[KarrieRee]

Ok we are going to need Tracie or AHBD to look at him ---- the UVB is a T 8? I would get it moved over so its directly over him --- and the bulb your using is what brand? You may need to remove the hammock if he keeps falling of it -- they cannot breath on their back and if hes black bearding I am thinking he maybe in pain --- how old is the UVB?
Karrie

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Ok we are going to need Tracie or AHBD to look at him ---- the UVB is a T 8? I would get it moved over so its directly over him --- and the bulb your using is what brand? You may need to remove the hammock if he keeps falling of it -- they cannot breath on their back and if hes black bearding I am thinking he maybe in pain --- how old is the UVB?
Karrie

The UVB is about 2 months old and we just got a new heat bulb today because our other one was starting to burn out. The UVB is a ZooMed ReptiSun 10.00 and I believe it is a T8. I have heard that if they are on their backs for an extended period of time their lungs could collapse, which was one of the reasons I am so concerned. He's usually on the other side of his tank where the UVB is over, but he might have been waiting for food. I think the hammock is probably the main cause of the issue and I'm working on finding a hideout or something similar to replace it with, but it's proving to be very difficult. I am also going to get another UVB on the opposite side of his tank, but since he isn't that big and doesn't go on that side of his tank, I'm waiting a while to see what happens.

 

[KarrieRee]

The hammock would not cause him to be flipping on his back --- you need to move the T 8 directly over him w/ NO obstruction approx 6-8 inches from him - I would remove the hammock and get something that is flat that he can lay on something like this where he wont fall off of it
https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/thrive-slate-turtle-ramp-decor-55902.html?cgid=500116
How long is the fixture for the UVB? And how wide is the tank? If you can take and put the UVB width wise over the tank as close to the basking area that you can -- I am thinking he may have gout but I want Tracie or AHBD to look -- if they suspect its gout as well he will need to go in for a blood test - they will test for uric acid levels - it is treatable but I am just guessing as a possible cause - Tracie is our vet tech mod and she would be able to read the blood work taken
Karrie

 

[NorbertTheDino]

The hammock would not cause him to be flipping on his back --- you need to move the T 8 directly over him w/ NO obstruction approx 6-8 inches from him - I would remove the hammock and get something that is flat that he can lay on something like this where he wont fall off of it
https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/thrive-slate-turtle-ramp-decor-55902.html?cgid=500116
How long is the fixture for the UVB? And how wide is the tank? If you can take and put the UVB width wise over the tank as close to the basking area that you can -- I am thinking he may have gout but I want Tracie or AHBD to look -- if they suspect its gout as well he will need to go in for a blood test - they will test for uric acid levels - it is treatable but I am just guessing as a possible cause - Tracie is our vet tech mod and she would be able to read the blood work taken
Karrie

Okay! I've talked to Tracie about his swollen toes before and I've been treating it from home for a while, and it seemed to work and his toes stopped swelling, but I think that they are starting to swell again. I'll have to get a blood test if they continue to swell and bother him, but I want to see what Tracie and AHBD think. I'll have to put the UVB the way you said to and see if that changes anything, and I'll definitely be changing out his hammocks. The UVB is 18 inches long and I think the width of the tank is a little shorter, so I'll prop it across. Thanks for your thoughts! I'll have to see when my vet is open this week just in case Tracie and AHBD think it's serious.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, he does have some swelling there. How long has that been present?
Do you know about how old he is, still young I can tell, 6 months? For now, I would
consider cutting the dubias down since they are naturally high in uric acid & replacing
them with crickets, or silkworms or hornworms to help in case he does have gout.
I think a blood test would be a good idea if he weighs at least 100 grams, in order for
them to do a successful blood draw on him.
Try to keep his protein to a low or moderate intake, focusing on hydration & vegetation
as much as possible. If you can get a regular calcium without any D3 right now, that would
be helpful because he is probably having a calcium absorption issue & the D3 can cause
some toxicity in his system if he isn't absorbing his calcium properly.
You can get some black or tart cherry juice extract to start him on to help flush out his
kidneys too.
Sometimes simply by changing the lighting & diet you can reverse some of the gout issues
like the swelling & any renal problems, but you may still need to get him on some gout
medication for awhile too.
Do you have a vet you can take him into?

Tracie

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Hello,

Poor guy, he does have some swelling there. How long has that been present?
Do you know about how old he is, still young I can tell, 6 months? For now, I would
consider cutting the dubias down since they are naturally high in uric acid & replacing
them with crickets, or silkworms or hornworms to help in case he does have gout.
I think a blood test would be a good idea if he weighs at least 100 grams, in order for
them to do a successful blood draw on him.
Try to keep his protein to a low or moderate intake, focusing on hydration & vegetation
as much as possible. If you can get a regular calcium without any D3 right now, that would
be helpful because he is probably having a calcium absorption issue & the D3 can cause
some toxicity in his system if he isn't absorbing his calcium properly.
You can get some black or tart cherry juice extract to start him on to help flush out his
kidneys too.
Sometimes simply by changing the lighting & diet you can reverse some of the gout issues
like the swelling & any renal problems, but you may still need to get him on some gout
medication for awhile too.
Do you have a vet you can take him into?

Tracie

I do, but I'm unaware if they do blood tests. I'm sure they do but if they don't I have a couple of other options. I do have some black cherry extract, but since I broke the syringe I use to feed him it, I'm unable to so I'll go to a pharmacy and get one soon. For now, I fill a small teaspoon with the cherry extract and he actually drinks it, which is weird, to say the least. I also need to go refill or greens stock, so I'll try to do that today. Is there a certain kind of greens that would help with his condition? He's had the swollen toes since the first week we had him, so maybe 3-4 months ago. I'm not sure how old he is, but if he still bad the end of his tail, he'd be about 14-16 inches long, so maybe 6 months would be about right. I do happen to have a seperate container of D3less calcium that I'll use. I've been trying to figure out a way to lower his UVB light to make it closer, but it's kind of proving to be difficult so I'll figure out something today.

 

[AHBD]

Poor guy, he might be better off in a medium plastic tote since he can't get around very well and needs the uvb closer. I'd take out the hammocks and put in a few rolled up towels for climbing on and one log. I'd put down wads of folded newspaper that can be lifted out by section if soiled or use a sand/soil mix. The hard bare glass or tile is most likely hurting his poor feet. Here's an example of the clear plastic tote :


https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29889/full

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Poor guy, he might be better off in a medium plastic tote since he can't get around very well and needs the uvb closer. I'd take out the hammocks and put in a few rolled up towels for climbing on and one log. I'd put down wads of folded newspaper that can be lifted out by section if soiled or use a sand/soil mix. The hard bare glass or tile is most likely hurting his poor feet. Here's an example of the clear plastic tote :


https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29889/full

Okay. I think I'll do that for now. I agree that it might be hurting his feet. Today, I went into the room I keep him in and he was climbing all over one of his hammocks, but he did seem a little uncomfortable. Yeah, I'll do that. He also had a ton of cherry extract today. Is there a certain amount I should be feeding him?

 

[AHBD]

Tracie knows more about the cherry extract but probably best not to use too much. It's good that he eats it willingly though !

 

[NorbertTheDino]

Tracie knows more about the cherry extract but probably best not to use too much. It's good that he eats it willingly though !

I agree . I dipped a superworm in cherry extract to see what he'd do and he licked off the cherry extract, but it might have been to get to the worm. I'll make sure he doesn't drink too much, but at least he seems to like it.

 

[AHBD]

BTW can you get a few shots of his tail ?