Getting a little frusterated...

[Reven1337]

<rant>

Me and my g/f purchased his and hers bearded dragons about a month ago. We been having constant problems since then.

They (yes housed together because she WONT let me spererate them) have been living in a 55 gallon fish tank since we got them (too tall).

Our male had a very healthy appitite up until we moved him to my house a few days ago. Now he has not been eating his greens and has watery poops (could be the blueberries).
Our female has had an appitite problem since we brought her home. We discovered she will only eat when no one is watching her, she has to think she is alone, shy is cute, but it doesnt lend itself to good health. We feed them in a bin cause we still have a sand subtrate, working on fixing this when the OSAP money comes. But even still only a couple shed meal worms and a couple crickets a day. They both have also become lethargic and just rest in the basking area (100-110 temps). Most of the time basking with one eye closed (cant figure this out). They arent hostile to each other but her stress marks are generally very dark. They bathe daily and get rep-cal with d3 (just ordered herpivite, coming in tuesday).

We were told by the breeder that we got them from that they are very social animals and love the company of others... but she also has all her beardies, both adult and hatchlings on sand and housed with 5+ per large enclosure... so theres a red flag i guess.

We just found out about repti-glo 10.0 being bad so we ordered new bulbs (2x reptisun 10.0) $80 later.

We also are getting a couple of MVBs (Megaray 1x160 watt 1x100 watt) $92.

Im pushing to seperate them so now i need another tank (i have some lexan laying around so i think im going to build one) the rest of the building cost... $80

We also just bought a light cycle unit (exxo terra) another $90...

The best part is in 8-10 months we get to replace all these bulbs!! w00t!! /sarcasm...

Dont get me wrong i love my dragons to death (been wanting a lizard since i was 4) but holy **** im a college student ffs...

It all just seems so overwhelming as at the moment they arent even healthy. Ive been force feeding our female, making salads (trying different veg and fruit, dont worry i read the food guide), buying new live feeders to try and spark her appitite and without seperating them i fear she will never get healthy.

Well hopefully once the relocation anxiety is gone and we get the new lighting setup it will get better...

</rant>

 

[Embee]

Reven,

Ranting is fine. Sometimes it helps. You're NOT alone. I came here because our first enclosure (all recommended by the pet store) was HIGHLY inadequate, and cost us a bundle. When we moved our beardie to a new, larger enclosure with all the proper equipment (thank you bd.org), it cost us less than HALF of what we paid to set up her starter tank. Knowing then what I do now could have saved us tons of money, time, frustration and most importantly, health problems for our beardie (of which she has since recovered from, thankfully). I am incensed at the amount of shoddy equipment available in stores, and now do the bulk of my shopping online, where I have access to quality supplies at reasonable prices. That said, I understand being overwhelmed by the amount of time, care (and money) it takes to own a beardie. We wouldn't trade ours for the world, but we've made some expensive mistakes, and since rectifying them, and her appetite being finally what it should be, we've found that feeding her is quite an expenditure in and of itself. Worth every penny, but still...

One thing that really stood out to me in your post (well, aside from housing two beardies together which from your post, I realize you're working to rectify), is the fact that you've ordered both ReptiSun 10.0 tubes, AND MVBs. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding, but I'm going to mention it just in case because it's terribly important: this is an either/or deal, you don't want both. Either ReptiSun 10.0 UVB tubes OR a MVB. There is such a thing as "too much UVB" (eye issues, radiation poisoning) and both type bulbs in one enclosure would certainly add up to that. Ok, just so we're clear. Couldn't let that one slip by. On an up note, it appears you can return a couple of those bulbs and "recoop" some of your expenses.

It seems to me that your probably dealing with a few things, that once rectified, will gradually (or quickly) work themselves out. Separating them, upgrading your husbandry, getting them off the sand... these are all things that should make a huge difference for your dragons. Once in their own enclosures, they should have much less stress and when it comes to appetite, UVB and temps are key so once you have EITHER a ReptiSun OR a MVB up and going, you may likely see a rather dramatic turn around in your dragons.

As to the UVB specifically, if you choose the route of the ReptiSun 10.0 tube, beardie should to be able to get to within 6-8 inches of the UVB bulb at the basking area (but no closer), and the two bulbs (UVB and basking) should be placed on top of the tank like this:


___________tube
0 basking bulb

...so that beardie has benefit of both the UVB and basking bulb while basking. Also, the bright light from the heat/UVA bulb will guard beardie's eyes while under the UVB. With the tube UVB, you will want calcium WITH D3 for your feeders. Dust 5 meals per week with calcium. Replace these bulbs every 5-6 months (they are MUCH cheaper on line: http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html )


If you choose the MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulb) route (for tanks 40 gallons and larger only), please note that these bulbs house UVA/UVB/HEAT/D3 all in one bulb. Beardie should be able to get NO closer than 12 inches to the MVB for a 100w, and no closer than 18 inches for a 160w. With a MVB, you will want to use calcium withOUT D3 such as: http://www.petmountain.com/product/rept ... in-d3.html Do note: these bulbs have a burn in period, and temps should be monitored VERY closely for the first 3-4 days, as they tend to run hotter. You may need to raise the bulb (alternatively, lower the basking surface) to achieve proper basking temps. Bulb should level off by the fourth day. Replace bulb every 10-12 months.

Indeed, I'm not sure your g/f's reasons for wishing to keep them together, but even when dragons do not "seem" like they are having issues with each other, they likely do have a hierarchy going on that can cause stress for both. Also, open displays of dominance can come on VERY suddenly and cause injury (and even death). The on-going stress of being housed with another can of course lead to poor appetite, slow/stunted growth (particularly for the submissive dragon), and overall health issues, so whatever you can do to convince her to allow you to separate them, it would be a most responsible thing to do, and will likely make a huge improvement to both of their lives, health wise (physical and mental).

I hope this is a help to you. Please feel free to rant some more if need. I totally understand where you're at. We're a 3 person family living on one income. The beardie is my son's pet technically, but we've all fallen for her head over heals, nothing we wouldn't do for our little dragon dearie... but it hasn't been an easy road... well, it's starting to feel easier now, but for the first few months, we were truly at a loss and it was terribly frustrating indeed.

The best,
Em

 

[UTreptiles]

The other concern about housing them together is the issue of overbreeding and breeding when she is too young. How old are your dragons? They can produce eggs and breed as early as 9 - 10 months of age. Way too young for this. Can have deadly consequences.

Dragons are not normally social. They are solitary animals until it is time to find a mate for the breeding season. I do house some of my reptiles together (females only), but you have to be really carefull about temperments and realize that it can change at a moments notice. It can be risky. I never house male and female together except during breeding season.


Sounds like you are going in the right direction to correct lighting, but here are some things to consider.

If you get an MVB you do not need to get a reptisun 10. MVB bulbs produce UVB and heat. On that note the 160 watt is a rather hot bulb. I use a 100 watt on my 4x2x2 cages and they need extra ventilation to maintain a lower heat gradient. I use 160 watt on my 6x2x2 enclosures and they work well for that size. However, if you are going to be using glass tanks with screens then you can freely adjust the bulb higher or lower if necessary. Just pay attention to the distance requirements for the bulbs you get. 100 Watt MVB is 12" max from bulb to basking area, 160 watt is 18" and Reptisun is 6 inches bulb to basking spot. Depending on the size of your current and future enclosures it may be hard to maintain a hot and cool side with a MVB. Just some things to consider.

If you go with the reptisun 10, then you would need a normal basking bulb and maybe another regular 60 watt or so household bulb to maintain proper temps.

 

[Reven1337]

Thanks for all the help. Im glad u told me about too much uvb with the mvb and repti-sun, that could have been bad.

We dont have to worry about them breeding quite yet, they are only 3 months. Our male is 9'' and our female (the suspected submissive) is only 6''. She is 2 weeks younger though, but her growth is being stunted by stress/lack of appitite, im sure of it.

This website has been the best resource i could ask for. Admittedly i used to question the credibility of the stuff i read here only because i was misinformed and wasnt sure who to believe.

 

[Embee]

This website has been the best resource i could ask for. Admittedly i used to question the credibility of the stuff i read here only because i was misinformed and wasnt sure who to believe.

I completely understand. We found a few websites early on after getting our dragon, and were turned off by the rude, opinionated post of some of the people we encountered. Not to mention all the conflicting advice, yikes! Somehow I missed bd.org at that time. When our dragon started going down hill, I was reticent to try the internet again, but then I found this place and started reading and realized that it was the first place I'd ever seen where people were actually caring, kind and it was clear that while not everyone was in lock step, there was a certain "consensus" of information being offered which I found to be rather comforting I suppose. And well, now since taking the advice, our dragon is thriving where once upon a time, she was shutting down (thanks to the pet store advice) so I suppose the proof is in that for us.

I hope your dragons are feeling better very soon. I believe your instincts about what is going on with your female are spot on.

The best,
Em