Georgie's pooping woes

[NoxnGeorgieT]

I'm sorry this is so long, but it's kind of a long story. Here's the deal: George is 7 months old, and as long as I've had him, he's always had pooping issues. I got him back in Jan. and he was having loose stools, so I had him tested for parasites within days of getting him, and nothing came up. When the problem didn't resolve after a few more weeks with him, I had him tested again, and that time he tested positive for pinworms, so my vet prescribed Panacur, and he had two doses a week apart. Waited two weeks after last dose and did another fecal, which came back clean, so as of now, he's been supposedly parasite-free for about a month. However, the whole time I've had him, his poops have been really inconsistent: he'll have very loose, liquidy stool for a day or two and then have relatively normal stool (soft but well-formed) for several days, basically just long enough that I think he's fine.

Here's his diet: he eats Phoenix Worms as his staple, along with butterworms (which I introduced a few weeks ago) and canned crickets (not a popular choice here, I know, but it's only by mixing canned crickets w/his greens that I can get him to eat even a tiny bit of mixed greens [collard, turnip, mustard as a base w/other veggies thrown in on a rotating basis]). I've tried basically every acceptable vegetable on the BD website, but as of now, he only eats as much of his salad as he must if he wants his beloved canned crickets. (BTW, he ate live crickets for the first day or two that I had him and then refused them entirely. I was going to use them to supplement his PWs, since those worms are so darned expensive, but it wasn't happening. I tried the canned crickets as a mix-in as a last-ditch effort to get him to try veggies and was shocked when he actually went for them. I've tried live worms on his greens, but as soon as the worms burrow under the salad, he loses interest and walks away from the bowl.)

Here are the things I have done to try to get him to poop normally:

*Messed w/his basking spot temperature.
I've learned through trial and error that he prefers lower temps (like in the high 90s) but will tolerate temps up to 107 or so. If a basking spot gets to 110 or higher, he will not use it. As of now, he has two basking spots, one that's 98-100 and one that's 104-107. He tends to start out the day on the cooler spot and then move to the hotter one for a few hours after he eats, then he goes back to the cooler one.

*Given him Acidophilis+ (that liquid stuff)
It doesn't seem to make any difference one way or another.

*Stopped giving him canned crickets
At one point, I got paranoid that the canned crickets were causing problems, so I stopped for two weeks. It didn't help.

So, to sum up, I've done everything I can think to do and NOTHING seems to have the slightest effect on his poop. I know that he eats pretty much all soft foods and it's not surprising that his poo should be kinda squishy, but it shouldn't EVER be liquid, right? My vet is equally stumped--she thinks it's possible that he's positive for adenovirus (sp?), since that's the only explanation her research has turned up for pooping issues w/out husbandry problems. However, he seems otherwise healthy and is gaining weight steadily (he was 20g when I got him on 1/6 and weighed 270g as of 5/6). Should I be worried? Is there something else I can try? Anyone have any ideas? I'm desperate for advice. Thank you!!!

 

[kcarello]

I suggest you pm Drache613 and ask for her help.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Do you feed any fruit at all?
Your basking temperatures are fine in the upper 90's. The range should be 95-110. A lot of them tend not to like it much higher than 105. Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures?
Did they do a fecal float or fecal smear? Another thing that can cause loose stools is giardia or flagelletes. Sometimes, they don't come up on regular float tests & are harder to detect. Maybe something like that was missed.
Adeno virus is another option also, as they tend to have trouble with parasites, etc as well as calcium issues, too.
Did the vet mention testing for you?

Tracie

 

[NoxnGeorgieT]

Hi, Tracie! Thanks for checking out my post.

Answers to your questions:

1) Nope, no fruit. I've tried apples, bananas, and blueberries, and I've only gotten him to eat half a blueberry. He's just not interested.

2) I am using a digital probe to measure the temps. I always wait 45 minutes minimum to consider the temp accurate, and I've been taking the temps several times a day; the numbers I gave in my original post reflect the range of temps in each spot over the course of an average day.

3) I'm waiting to hear back about whether or not it was a float or a smear, but the vet tech I spoke to when I called said that she thought that they did both a float AND a smear if they had enough if a sample, but she needed to confirm that w/my vet. If I find out that they *did* do both and nothing came up, should I make them do it again? Should I just ask for Flagyl anyway, or is that a bad idea? George had no trouble w/the Panacur for his pinworms--he kept his appetite--but Flagyl is a lot more harsh on the system, right? I don't want to cause him more distress.

4) The vet did mention testing for the adenovirus, but she recommended against it because a) she said it was a really expensive test (like over $100) and b) she said that if his diarrhea was caused by adeno, she'd expect a corresponding failure to thrive, and he was/is looking great. Do you think I should go ahead and pay to have it done? If so, do you know anyplace cheaper I could get it done? I'll suck it up and pay the big bucks if I have to, but I'd like to know what my options are. I looked at the PATS website, but I got the impression that the testing done through the organization is only for breeders. Is that accurate?

One other question: Should I start giving him a probiotic again? If so, how often? I gave it to him while he was on Panacur and for a couple of weeks after, but I've been wondering if I just didn't give it enough of a chance to do some good.

Thanks so much for all your help!!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is good you are not feeding fruit because too much fruit can cause diarrhea & upset tummies sometimes.
That is correct, the Flagyl is more harsh on the system. I would hesitate to automatically medicate him without diagnosis.
There is no need to cause more stress, that is for sure.

The site, the Pats will test any dragon, breeder or non breeder. It is a testing ground, for research so I welcome anyone who would like to test! The test is $18 for the fecal swab & it is very easy to do the test.
If you would like to test, just do the sign up through the site & I will contact you that way.
The panacur should show signs of working after 1-3 treatments depending on the severity of the case.
I think you should try probiotics, that may help out a little bit. You can try non dairy soy yogurt or acidophiliz.
Let me know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[NoxnGeorgieT]

Hi, Tracie.

Update: I heard back from the vet today, and they did do both a float and a smear both times. However, the vet confirmed what you said about girdia not always being caught, so she told me I could bring yet another fecal in and they would send the sample off to another, bigger lab that they work with when they need to have more extensive testing done. So, I'll get the fecal in tomorrow (assuming he decides to poo) and hopefully know more very soon.

I think I would like to do the adeno test, too, just to cover all the bases, so I filled out the contact info on the PATS website. As far as I can tell from reading this site, though, there's not really much I can do for him if he *is* positive, right? I read a few threads that mentioned how serrapeptase and/or milk thistle might do some good, but is there anything else I should know/buy/do if his test comes up positive? (I'm now wondering if my first beardie was positive and just largely asymptomatic--he died of kidney failure, and I never had a necropsy performed. He was in good health for years and then seemed to get sick totally out of the blue.)

If you think the probiotics might help, I will definitely start using them again. How often should I give the Acidophilis, though? I don't want to overdo it.

Thanks so much!