Fluid with bowel movement; hard urate (white part)

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So, I read that a hard urate (that’s what I’m told the white part of the Poo is) could indicate dehydration and/or too much calcium. Ok, so for about a month, Rango ate a lot of crickets with calcium/vitamin powder because that’s the only way he’d eat them. I switched to dubias almost 2 months ago, and have barely given him calcium since the switch due to a hard urate. Well, tonight I got inducted to the official beardie owner club....He pooped on me while I was cuddling him for bedtime. He’s usually asleep by then, but, his beard was black, he wouldn’t get still, and I guess this is why. Aside from fluid with the poop, and yet again a hard urate, everything else looked (and smelled) normal. I’m so worried, idk what’s wrong with him :( He drinks more water now than he ever has, and I mist his veggies so I don’t see how he could be dehydrated? His fat pads look good as well, and I’ve only dusted his veggies a few times in the last 6 weeks or so.. Is there anything else I can do? I can’t find a vet anywhere near me that’ll even just do a fecal. I hope to buy the stuff to do it myself in a couple of weeks, and also get meds for parasites just in case... Is there anything else I can do in the interim???
 

HylianHealeys

Juvie Member
For my beardies, urates have always been fairly hard and brittle. I've paid more attention to the color, personally. I would like to know what the others say on this topic.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
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The fluid coming through with the poop is excess water passing through. It's not a problem but tells me he is getting enough water. If he wants to keep drinking, let him do so. The chalky urate can sometimes indicate dehydration but I don't think that's the case here. It may not indicate a problem at all but an increase in thirst and black beard may indicate something is up. I'd usually advise a blood test to see how his kidneys are functioning but that would require a vet who knows how to draw blood from a dragon.
 

ShadyFeline79

Member
Original Poster
Ok. His thirst seemed to increase when I started using a CHE. I was paranoid that the temps may not stay as high over the winter, so I got a CHE bulb for night, and to help keep his temps right during the day. Could that have anything to do with it? Also, he doesn’t drink when he gets a bath, I’d just seen someone saying their beardie drinks from the bottle they use to mist him, so I chose to try that as well... and that’s the only time or way he will drink water. I guess before that, he got his water from misted veggies,and hornworms? Update today, beard is normal color. I’ve decided to use the CHE just long enough to get his basking temps right, and then I turn it off.

Thanks again for everyone’s help!
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
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The CHE is helpful for temperature bumps. You don't need a lot overnight. Low 70s is good. It's good that his beard color has returned to normal. Sometimes they drink from the bath. I like to drip water on their nose with a plastic syringe so they can lick it up. Some people have good luck spraying the tip of their nose the same way. They get most of their hydration from their food (fresh veges, well hydrated bugs) but it's still good to make more water available to them if they want it.
 

ShadyFeline79

Member
Original Poster
So, I’ve contacted the nearest vet which is like 3 hours away.. I was just hoping I might could get a little more advice while I’m waiting to get him in... Are there ANY other symptoms of kidney issues that I need to be aware of? His appetite started slowing when winter arrived. He will still eat some mustard greens, and dubias, however, his absolute favorite are hornworms! I swear he’d eat 30 a day if I let him. I try to only give him about 3/week as I know they’re
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not exact staple. He’s not sleeping all day, still only sleeps at night, but, I have seen him take little Cat naps here and there. His fat pads look real good, at least to me and I am posting a pic with this that I took of him tonight. He only drinks about 3, maybe 4 days a week, and for about 10 seconds maybe. I was just wondering if that’s excessive? I was so happy when he finally started drinking water and now it scares me if he drinks water :( I was just hoping there were more symptoms I could maybe look for, and if it is his kidneys, is there anything I can do for it at home till I can make it to Raleigh?

Thanks again everyone
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EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Okay, I don't think you have any problem here at all, not with the urate anyway. Their urates do tend to be hard and even chalky at times, and if there is excess water in his bowel movements then he's definitely not dehydrated at all. Most dragons don't drink any water at all, just as they don't in the wild (there is no standing water in the Australian Desert to drink). Most dragons have no concept of what "water" or "standing water" actually even is. They get all the hydration they need from the live insects and fresh greens/veggies.

That being said, It's alarming to me that you've not been giving him much calcium powder at all, this is a big no-no. Regardless of his age (I don't know how old he is) he needs to get calcium 5 times a week and a multivitamin 3 times a week. A "hard" or "chalky" urate is not at all a sign of "too much calcium", I don't know who told you that but they're wrong. If any excess calcium passes in their urates it tints the urate a pinkish color, it has nothing to do with it's hardness. So please, get him back to getting calcium at least 4 times a week as an adult, 5 if he's under 2 years (I still give calcium to my adults 5 times a week anyway) and a multivitamin 3 times a week, as this will without a doubt cause you tremendous issues soon enough.

As far as the black-beard goes, it was probably due to the CHE causing him to be way too hot. He should never need a CHE during the daytime, his bright-white colored basking bulb should be enough to keep his Basking Spot Surface Temp and his Hot Side Ambient Temp within the correct ranges, if it's a bit too low (5-10 degrees too low for either) you can lower the basking bulb towards him, if it's way too low then you need to use a higher wattage of basking bulb. And as far as for nighttime, they actually sleep most soundly if it's cooler, as Cooper said 65 degrees as a low, low 70's as a high for his nighttime sleep. If he's too hot during the night (into the high 70's is too hot at nighttime) then he won't sleep well. So this is most likely why he was black-bearding, and would also actually dehydrate him.

As far as him being dehydrated, the only reason that should happen is #1) His temperatures inside his tank are too high, #2) He's not eating enough live insects and/or fresh greens/veggies (depending on his age). If he was dehydrated the signs are typically #1) Droopy Eyes, #2) An orange tint to his urates, and #3) Very excessive loose skin (not just a few wrinkles). So I don't think he's at all dehydrated, nor was he ever, especially if you were basing that on a "hard urate". The fact that excess fluid is seen in his bowel movements is a very good sign that he's well-hydrated.

I think he's just fine. A winter slow-down in appetite and a bit more lethargy is perfectly normal, both of mine are doing the same thing right now, it seems particularly harsh right now because it's been so cold. They can sense the drop in barometric pressure outside even if their tanks are warm, so they know it's winter and this causes a normal slow-down in them. It's perfectly normal.

Honestly, it sounds like he's just fine, everything is fine except he needs to be getting regular calcium and multivitamins again starting ASAP. Other than that I don't think you have a problem. If he'll take extra water from a bottle or from dripping it on his snout or from a bath or however he'll do it that's fine, but don't be alarmed if he won't, most won't. I've yet to have a dragon that will drink any standing water, not from a bath or a bowl. They will lick it off their snouts, which I do give them at least once a day, but I've yet to have one that was dehydrated, as they get all the hydration they need from their food. And your boy looks nice and big and healthy. I think he's fine, just get him back on his calcium and multivitamin supplements and he'll be fine.
 

ShadyFeline79

Member
Original Poster
Oh gosh, I apologize.. I must’ve said something misleading as I haven’t completely stopped calcium and multivitamins but I did decrease it because that’s what someone whom claimed to be an expert said caused chalky urate... They told me it hurts them to pass it, so, of course I didn’t want that. I know it may be kind of dumb to assume someone is an expert because they said so, but the only pet stores I have around me are PetCo and Petsmart and ik from experience that they aren’t trained very well... and my nearest exotic pet/reptile vet is 3 hours away as I mentioned before, and they won’t tell me anything over the phone. I just didn’t know who to listen to, and nobody in that group came forward and said she was incorrect. Omg, now I want to go wake him up and give him his calcium and vitamins (I’m not, though..) as I’ve only been dusting his food maybe 2-3 times a week lately, and he is 1 year old. Also, where do you stand with the Calcium with D3? I have one thing of calcium, one thing of calcium with D3, and a thing of multivitamins. I believe the admin in that group said the calcium with D3 should only be given 3x a month? Is that anywhere near correct?? Thank you for your help <3
 
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