First brumation? Need HELP!

[diamc]

I have to agree about the undertank heater not being a good idea since they sense the heat from overhead & if the heater malfunctions, his belly could get burned before he realizes it is too hot.

Hopefully the Panacur won't affect his appetite. Would be a good idea to give a probiotic regardless though. It is best to have a fecal checked to make sure an antibiotic is actually needed.

Good that you will be keeping a close eye on the temps using the probe thermometer as the others are very inaccurate and can be 20 degrees off. It is a good idea to let them adjust where they want to bask so makng sure the distance to the UVB is in the suggested range, then your beardie will be more apt to enjoy basking right under the light most of the time while getting the needed UV penetration.

Hope he continues to improve for you and won't be hiding under his log a lot.

 

[Belle]

Personally i don't think you're vet is especially experienced honestly. It doesn't sound like things got to cold if he genuinely had temps of 110. I would place a nice piece of slate under the lamp and let that provide belly heat. Are you using a stat with the heat mat? They have to have one, otherwise there is a risk of burns.

Personally i don't like the idea of de-worming for the sake of it. By all means get a fecal done regularly and treat as needed. Not least as Panacur is only effective against some parasites.

As for brumation, some bearded dragons will naturally put themselves into that state even if their needs are met. That isn't true of all reptiles - most N. American colubrids for instance will generally eat and be active all year around if allowed. Why i don't know, if i were to guess i'd imagine it's triggered by atmospheric pressure as much as temperature. Just a guess though. No idea if it's been researched.

Having raised several beardies from the smallest of 3 1/2" to over 12 yrs of age, I have witnessed their basking behavior for about 15 yrs and have adjusted their basking temp according to the way they prefer basking and watching their signs. Since this beardie was placed in his basking spot but decided to leave to hide under his log instead as noted in the OP's first post, to me it sounds like he was too hot and that the temps were off especially since there is the possibility that the 110 reading wasn't taken with the probe thermometer in place right on the basking log for about 45 min. At the age of 9 months, none of my beardies would prefer basking right under the lights at that temp.

Each to their own, i'd much rather provide the correct temps and then let the lizard interact accordingly.

I do appreciate your response, but I just want to clear up some confusion for you. Oskar's daytime basking temp is 110 and cool side 70, so he has plenty of room to get comfy. The night temp high is 85, but on that specific night he fell asleep on the cool side against the glass around 70. We had an unusually cool night and the temp in our home was 63 at 10am the next morning when we found him. He has not experienced that low temp since we've had him. That seems to be the reason for the scare he gave us. I let him get too cold. I use strip thermometers because Oskar won't allow a probe in his tank, he can be quite stubborn. Since the adding of the heat pad I have successfully hidden one probe under his substrate and am keeping a close eye on his temps, checking regularly with digital.

I understand you may disagree with some of the Vet's recommendations but I assure you he is well qualified and has owned and bred bearded dragons as well as many other reptiles. He also makes himself available to answer my questions 24/7 and is dedicated to the care and well-being of my animals. He advocates worming every 6 months regardless. It may seem unnecessary but it will not harm him and can only benefit his health.

Hopefully the Panacur won't affect his appetite. Would be a good idea to give a probiotic regardless though. It is best to have a fecal checked to make sure an antibiotic is actually needed.

Good that you will be keeping a close eye on the temps using the probe thermometer as the others are very inaccurate and can be 20 degrees off. It is a good idea to let them adjust where they want to bask so makng sure the distance to the UVB is in the suggested range, then your beardie will be more apt to enjoy basking right under the light most of the time while getting the needed UV penetration.

Hope he continues to improve for you and won't be hiding under his log a lot.

Oskar is eating more salad than ever suddenly along with his daily crickets, so at least it hasn't decreased his appetite. I will ask about a probiotic tomorrow. I hadn't thought of that. He was stressed and in no mood for a fecal check at the Vet (did I mention how stubborn he is?) but I will be dropping off a sample for them this week to follow up. He seems to be basking more, I guess because he is eating so much. He won't need to go back for 6 months as long as there are no other issues.
Thanks to everyone for the concern and advice.

 

[AHBD]

Sounds like he's doing much better I just wanted to apologize for saying he looked very thin, in the first pic you posted the angle made him look thin but the other pic shows a nice decent weight. Oh, one more thing though, 85 is pretty high for overnight, try to keep it between 70-75.

 

[diamc]

Great to hear he is eating and acting better. You must be relieved that he has improved.

 

[Belle]

Sounds like he's doing much better I just wanted to apologize for saying he looked very thin, in the first pic you posted the angle made him look thin but the other pic shows a nice decent weight. Oh, one more thing though, 85 is pretty high for overnight, try to keep it between 70-75.

No need to apologize, I realized the picture wasn't very flattering after your reply and posted the one of him next to the remote. He weighs 15.2 ounces. His night temps were 85 high and 70 low, which is probably why he went to sleep on the cool side the night it got so cold. I'm using a temp gun to get more accurate reads and looking at getting a thermostat to regulate his temps. Thank you for your replies!

Great to hear he is eating and acting better. You must be relieved that he has improved.

Thank you! Yes, relieved but exhausted from the worrying. I'm so thankful for this forum to keep me busy and all of the kind people that posted to help me.

 

[SLDragon]

I'm not sure there is much confusion

We had an unusually cool night and the temp in our home was 63 at 10am the next morning when we found him. He has not experienced that low temp since we've had him. That seems to be the reason for the scare he gave us.

A night at 63 shouldn't cause any problems. I wouldn't criticise yourself for this.

I use strip thermometers because Oskar won't allow a probe in his tank, he can be quite stubborn.

They're guess work. But did you say you are using an IR gun anyway, if so not to worry.

He advocates worming every 6 months regardless. It may seem unnecessary but it will not harm him and can only benefit his health

That's a bold statement, whilst anthelmintics aren't as harsh as some drugs, i don't know if its reasonable to say they can't do any harm. I would definitely use a probiotic if you decide to follow the advice. In addition you should still get fecal checks performed as there are other parasites than worms to worry about.

He was stressed and in no mood for a fecal check at the Vet

How was the vet trying to do the check?

Again, you must get a thermostat for that heat mat, they are not safe without one. Lights should also be on a high range stat too - but the mat is of immediate concern. I'm not trying to be dramatic.

Most importantly it sounds like you are much happier with how he is, so that's great news!

 

[Belle]

I do feel guilty for letting him get so cold. I can't help it. Our vet is a good friend, he specializes in exotics particularly reptiles. In fact he has kept and bred bearded dragons and other reptiles and is very knowledgable about husbandry. He will be over-seeing Oskar's move to a new viv this weekend. I hid a probe next to the heat mat (he attacks them) but I am looking into a thermostat to regulate temps, as well as the temp gun. It may seem over precautious but I don't want another scare, like he gave me.
He is doing much better now and I am pleased with his recovery. I know there is some concern about deworming...but I have complete trust in our vet. He is extremely knowledgeable and has more experience than anyone I know. I did ask him about a probiotic and he has responded; I will be picking it up tomorrow. At this point it can only help. The vet feels so strongly about deworming because of the risk of parasites from the crickets. I feel lucky to have a vet so committed to Oskar's health and wellness.

Thank you very much for your comments and concern. I'm greatful for all of the replies and it means more than I can say.

 

[SLDragon]

Fair enough, you have to do what you think is best and if you trust the vet then thats the main thing.

Don't be afraid to ask questions though and push for detail and explanations.

I'm not against a de-worming per se, but i think it worth getting the check done first (not least to check for other parasites)

How's the new viv being set up?

A thermostat isn't over cautious, especially with a heat mat, those things can get very hot.

Again, i don't thing a night at 63 caused your lizard any harm at all.

 

[Belle]

I am taking a stool sample in this week for follow up and getting a probiotic for precaution. Our vet is coming over to help with the new set up this weekend. I will ask lots of questions, but he's used to it. Oskar gets fussy anytime we move his stuff so I expect he will be unhappy with his new viv at first. I just want to get the thermostat set up properly. Thank you again for your replies and kindness. I will post a pic of his new viv this weekend. Hopefully Oskar will pose for it, haha.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is great Oskar is doing much better now!
I think the probiotic will help out, if anything to keep his system balanced out while he has medication rounds.
I wouldn't worry though, if he did go into a brumation phase at his age, it is quite normal & they do it in the wild all of the time & are fine.

I hope he continues to improve for you.

Tracie

 

[Belle]

Oskar has fully recovered and is doing great! Here are some pics of him after his bath and having a treat. Thank you again to everyone who posted!

 

[AHBD]

Looks good ! Glad to hear it.

 

[diamc]

He looks happy & content now.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am happy to hear Oskar has gotten so much better now! He looks quite proud of himself there & very handsome, too.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie