First Beardie isn't doing to good

[ironclaw37]

I just bought my first Beardie on Monday( four days ago) and he's not doing to good. He's been very stressed and won't eat much, about twelve crickets a day at most. He also spends most of the day basking or hiding on the top of the wall. Whenever I spray him with water he gets mad and I've i my seen him in his water bowl once and he drank some water off of the wall. He doesn't seem to like it when I try to get him to crawl on my hand has never used his hide away. My tank is also pretty humid. I'm really worried since he's my first Beardie and I'm not that experienced, please help!

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, it's not a long post and no need to be sorry. Actually he's eating a good amount for just getting to his new home recently. They can be a bit stressed so that's normal, just give him time to settle in.

If he drinks off the wall that's good...in the wild they would get hydration from objects that collected dew in the morning so what you're doing is fine.

Can you lisy your exact type + brand of lights just to be sure everything is O.K. in that area?

 

[ironclaw37]

I have a 10.0 reptisun uvb light bulb and a 75 watt spot basking lamp in a double dome. I also have a red night time light, not sure which brand.

I picked him up a couple minutes ago and that seemed to make him happy ( Stress marks went away and his back was lighter) but he got mad again when I put him back. Im guessing that's normal. Also my tank is pretty humid for a desert habitat, so if you can help with that.

 

[kingofnobbys]

I have a 10.0 reptisun uvb light bulb and a 75 watt spot basking lamp in a double dome. I also have a red night time light, not sure which brand.

<<< came in a viv kit ?

If it's the 13W 10.0 reptisun it's totally inadequate , please in the first instance swap it out for a 26W UVB200 & retire the reflector dome (sitting on top of the mesh lid - am I right ?) with an ExoTerra NanoHood and install this mounted with the new 26W UVB200 UNDER THE MESH LID. See my cheatsheet viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050 for lots of hints and tips and to identify the issues with existing viv kit setup (sand , neodymium basking globe, poor UVB globe) and see this viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611
to help you work out the best distance from the UVB globe (or later the tube) to basking spot (aim for about 190 microW UVB / sq.cm @ the basking spot).

Ditch the red coloured night globe IT WILL DISTURB beardies sleep, if you need to warm the viv overnight, your best bet is a ceramic heat emitter controlled by a thermostat (be sure it's one which has a remote probe on the end of long wire).

I picked him up a couple minutes ago and that seemed to make him happy ( Stress marks went away and his back was lighter) but he got mad again when I put him back. Im guessing that's normal. Also my tank is pretty humid for a desert habitat, so if you can help with that.

How humid is it ?

 

[ironclaw37]

Right now it's at about 50%, and I'll go and buy th new light today.

 

[AHBD]

Humidity is nearly perfect....it gets higher than that in native Australia, the previous poster can tell you that with experience since he lives there. The humidity in my home where I keep beardies for over 20 years has always been in that range + sometimes higher, it's not a problem. It's only a poblem if the tank is damp + the temps. are too cool constantly.

 

[EllenD]

Yeah, that Reptisun 10.0 from the kit is a 13 watt compact bulb, you need the long tube Reptisun 10.0 and a matching fixture, not the compact version...

 

[ironclaw37]

Would a eco terra Repti-Glo 10.0 Flourescent Desert lamp 29 watt be ok? The posture shows UVB150. Also I need some help on advice on giving my Beardie baths.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Right now it's at about 50%, and I'll go and buy th new light today.

50% RI is fine.

Up to 70% is OK , I'm on the subtropical north coast of New South Wales and in summer despite my running the aircon 24/7 (because it gets very warm and very humid , especially at night ) I rarely see humidity inside the house under 70% (is lots higher outside).
I also know people who live in Darwin, Mackay , Port Hedland & Cairns (who are living very close to the equator and have only two seasons , extremely hot & wet , and hot and dry (winter)) who are very successful beardie keepers and breeders.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Would a eco terra Repti-Glo 10.0 Flourescent Desert lamp 29 watt be ok? The posture shows UVB150. Also I need some help on advice on giving my Beardie baths.

Ignore the rubbish in the poster. A UVB150 is only a 5% UVB compact and not remotely adequate. Your dragon would literally have to wear the UVB150 in a dome or hood as a hat to get enough UVB.

At the very LEAST you need a 26W UVB200.

If the Repti-Glo 10.0 Flourescent Desert lamp 29 watt is a T8 tube so is quite weak , it will need to be mounted
>> under the mesh lid
>> in a reflector hood
>> about 7 to 8 inches from the basking spot to have about 190 microW UVB / sq.cm.
See http://exo-terra.com/en/products/linear_fluorescent_bulbs.php
if it's the T10 tube , it needs to even closer (I don't have any UVB flux / distance data for their T10 tubes.

Careful here : "Effective to a specified distance" DOES NOT mean this is the optimum distance from UV source to the basking spot , effective to distance x means ONLY that UVB will be measureable at distance x.
The optimum UVB distance will be somewhat closer than the distance x.
For example a 26W UVB200 globe :
.......Effective Distance up to 40 inches ==> 4 microW UVB / sqcm
.......At a distance of 24 inches ==> 10 microW UVB / sqcm
.......A good distance for beardies is 6-8 inches ==> 160 - 90 microW / sqcm.

Likewise the Exo-Terra STAR rating system is quite misleading , so while the products are good quality , this system can lead inexperienced and ever experienced but not scientifically literate keepers to choose an inadequate UVB globe or tube believing they are making a good choice. You need to see the UVB flux performance chart to get a handle on the adequacy of a globe or tube .

I don't know why the company is so vague / misleading when it comes to the performance of their UV globes and tubes.

 

[EllenD]

Well said by Kingofnobbys...Since you're not very experienced with bearded dragons we'll try to help you get your setup correct now so he will not develop any future issues...Is he a young baby that you bought from a pet shop, or an adult that you adopted? Either way, you need to concentrate on his lighting and temperatures first and foremost, as beardies being desert reptiles require very specific lighting and temperatures to survive and to stay healthy. Unfortunately most if not all of the "Kits" that are sold contain nothing correct for a bearded dragon but the actual tank itself, the lights are garbage. First of all, throw the red nighttime bulb away, your beardie doesn't need any nighttime heat source at all as long as his tank stays at 65 degrees or higher, and most houses are warmer than that. They like their temps at night to become much cooler than their daytime temps so they can sleep comfortably, and they also need total darkness at night, no lights at all. And never, ever, ever use ANY COLORED BULBS AT ALL! Beardies see in color just like we do, so colored bulbs whether red, blue, green, yellow, "moonlight" or black, it doesn't matter, it can really cause their eyes problems and it's just completely unnatural. Your main goal is to replicate natural sunlight as closely as possible for him, so obviously colored bulbs are a no no. So throw the red nighttime bulb away and let him sleep in complete darkness at a nice, cool temperature.

Now that you've got the red nighttime bulb in the garbage, we need to talk about UVB light. The UVB light is the most crucial and important item you will ever buy for your beardie! His exposure to the correct wavelength and strength of UVB light for a long enough period of time every day is what will determine his appetite, activity level, whether or not he grows properly, whether or not he manufactures vitamin D3, whether or not he absorbs any nutrition at all, including any Calcium, and whether or not he develops any nutritional deficiencies and diseases thereof, like Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), which is a very, very common issue for pet bearded dragons, along with failure to thrive and stunted growth. This happens because most UVB lights sold are not appropriate for beardies, even the ones that are marketed for beardies, and pet shop employees and even breeders give horrible advice about lighting, temps, diet, everything. So new owners think they're doing everything correctly when in fact they are hurting their beardies. So please take buying him a proper UVB light and getting it mounted appropriately very seriously.

 

[EllenD]

So as far as proper UVB lighting goes you need either an MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulb) which is an all-in-one bulb that gives him both his UVB light and UVA light, as well as his heat. They screw into a normal clamp lamp, and the most highly rated are the MegaRay and the PowerSun. The SolarGlo seems to not be getting very good reviews as it's not a very strong MVB bulb. The MVB bulbs are more expensive but they are the only bulb you need typically (if your enclosure is large enough you'll probably need a lower wattage, bright white basking bulb at the opposite end of the enclosure from the MVB), and they only need replaced once a year (all UVB lights will need replaced either at 6 months or a year, even though they still turn on and emit light, because they stop emitting UVB light). The second UVB light option in the US is a long, flourescent tube UVB light, usually people buy the 18" or 24" long tube, and a matching long, flourescent tube fixture with a reflector. The two adequate brands of these for beardies are Reptisun in the US, and also Arcadia in Europe and Australia, though you can obviously order either online, and I recommend ordering whatever you buy on Amazon.com, they give you a package deal with the UVB tube and a matching fixture.

The Reptisun 10.0 are the best UVB tubes available for beardies in the US, and what most reputable breeders and experienced owners use (never a 5.0, they are for tropical reptiles and not as strong as the 10.0). You can buy either a T8 strength or the T5 High-Output strength. The T8 must be mounted inside the enclosure and cannot be put on top of a mesh lid because it's not strong enough to penetrate the mesh (or glass, no UVB ever penetrates any glass!). The T8 must be within 8" of his main basking spot and be replaced every 6 months. The T5 High-Output strength can sit on top of the mesh lid (no glass though) and must be within 11" of his main basking spot, and must be replaced once a year. The T8 can be put into a normal flourescent tube fixture from Walmart for $10, the T5 High-Output must be put into a flourescent fixture rated for a T5 tube at 25 watts, which I buy on Amazon.com along with my Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube as a package deal (they have one that is much cheaper than the Reptisun brand hood or T5 fixture).

 

[EllenD]

If you buy a long UVB tube then you need a separate basking light to provide heat and basking light. You should only buy a bright white basking bulb, no colored day bulbs like blue or yellow. Most of us use regular halogen indoor flood bulbs like you buy at Lowes or Home Depot, no need for any expensive reptile specific basking bulbs. 99% of all of those reptile bulbs you see on the shelves at the pet shop are unnecessary, and most are inadequate for a beardie. I buy either GE or Phillips brand halogen indoor flood bulbs at Lowes or Walmart for between $5-$10, usually for a 40 gallon breeder tank you'll want a 100 watt (may need to tweak that but start at 100 watt). Your UVB tube and the basking light should be right alongside each other (so he gets both at the same time while basking) and on the Hot Side, over his main basking spot, and the UVB needs to be within the correct distance of the Basking Spot. You'll need to buy either a digital probe thermometer or a temperature gun if you haven't already, because those round, gauge, stick-on thermometers are very inaccurate, off by up to 20 degrees, and also you cannot measure the basking spot temperature with one. The digital probe thermometers cost $10 at Petco or PetSmart and are very accurate.

Your 3 temperature zones must be within the correct ranges for your beardie to be able to digest his food properly and to keep his appetite up. You need to establish a temperature gradient from one side of the tank to the other, plus a hotter temp on his basking spot. Once you buy all of your correct lights and get them mounted over the basking spot, right alongside each other (if using a 10.0 UVB tube), and get the UVB within the correct distance, then take your probe and place it on the Basking Spot. Allow it to sit for 20-30, then read the temp. Then move the probe to the floor on the Hot Side (surrounding the basking spot), let it sit for 20-30 minutes, then read the temp, then move the probe to the opposite side (Cool Side), let the probe sit for 20-30 minutes, then read it. Basking Spot for a baby/juvenile should be between 105-110 (110 absolute maximum), for an adult between 100-103; the Hot Side temp should be between 88-93, and the Cool Side between 74-80 maximum...

 

[ironclaw37]

Thanks for all of the lighting info, will a 36x18x18 enclosure be big enough for most of my Beardies life

 

[EllenD]

That's a good size for up to a year or so old, but after he gets over a year old, his life-long enclosure needs to be at least 4'x2'x2' (48"x24"x24") at a minimum. They typically finish growing between 1 and a half and 2 years old, so figure your 36"x18x18" will be good until he's a little over a year old. So at a year old you need to start planning for his adult enclosure.

I have 3 beardies now (one is a rescue with health issues and is severely stunted, so he's in an EXO Terra the same size as yours), and I have 3 EXO Terra tanks the size of yours, which I typically keep them in up to a year old, then I build them custom wooden enclosures. If you're handy with tools at all then your best bet is to build your own custom enclosure for him. You'll save a ton of money and it's fairly easy once you do your research. Figure if you buy an already built enclosure that is 4'X2'X2', you'll pay at least $300, but you can build one, including the light fixtures, switches, surge strip built in, metal vents, etc. for around $100 in materials.