Females can produce eggs without males...issue needs address

[dolphinsilversea01]

There is a "story" about what happened to my bubbies today below. I can't go through explaining it all again in a different manner for this posting as I barely made it through that one (posted in beardie memorials).

I think the matter that a female beardie can produce and lay eggs without a male present needs to be addressed as much as the other health issues and concerns. It needs to be let known as "common knowledge" like UVB, substrates, impaction, brumation, and others. This needs to be known in areas other than placed in just the breeding section.

Today my bubbies suffered from this and I had no idea, I didn't know what to look for, what was happening - nothing. I didn't do much looking in breeding section and topic because I wasn't planning on breeding her in the near future, so if this is a topic in the breeding section I do not and would not know.

I am sorry for the long post, and for the drawn out story to make my point, but I am already getting upset so it is going to be a straight out copy and paste. If anyone knows the term for this please let me know... and lets educate everyone on this matter.

Oh my dear bubbies....

I adopted you about a year or so ago. At that time I had only seen the little babies that my work carries and wondered when I would be able to own such a beautiful creature. Soon after I fell in love with beardies a friend called to tell me she knows someone who could no longer take care of you and if I was interested in taking you. You then became my bubbies. From the moment I first saw you and held you I fell in love. You were so calm and sweet. Over time you came to know me as mom as you would come to me when I called you. You enjoyed sitting on m lap for rub downs, and even lifted your head for kisses. You made it impossible not to fall madly in love with you and bearded dragons period. I did the best I could to take care of you, doing everything to take care of you in the healthiest and proper manner. You were spoiled!! I would hear all the time bout how I spoiled you like a child, but you were just that.... my bubbies. I often referred to you as my dog with scales/spikes because that is exactly how you acted. You would see your harness and get excited, knowing that you would soon be going outside. You knew the word 'ride' and would get excited when I would ask you if you wanted to go for one. You enjoyed going out and seeing other places and people as I took you to work with me for events and to schools to educate the little kiddies. I swear you smiled during these times! You were so happy to get all that love and attention.

I came home from work today and while waiting for my daughter so we could leave, decided to say hi to my beardies. When I saw bubbies I knew something was horribly wrong. She was.... well it's hard to explain, but she was bent side ways and tongue hanging out over her food bowl. "Bubbies??" I said. Nothing. She usually looked up at me so when she didn't I knew even further that what was ahead would be something I didn't want to continue and face. I had that sudden rush feeling that maybe if I just ignore what I just saw it wouldn't be true. I had that instant feeling that I hoped this would just end up being a horrible dream. I grabbed her and lifted her up, she seemed like she took a couple of breaths but didn't really respond. "Bubbies!!!" I just kept repeating. As I lifted her up and brought her towards me I noticed that it lookd as though she was bleeding from her underside and what appeared to be mucas at first glance. I set her down lightly and began grabbing her carry bag as I knew a rush to the vet was in order. I didn't pay too much attention to wondering what I could do for her at that second, I just knew I couldnt do anything and that the only thing I could do was to rush her as fast as I could to the vet. My daughter helped me pack her up as I called a vet. I found out which one would see her immediately and didn't care that due to the economic crap going on I have no money for a vet visit at this time. I made it to the nearest rep specialist, normally a 20 minute drive, in about 5 minutes!! We rushed you in and all I had to say was that I was the one with the beardie and they handed me some paperwork as they led us into the room. The vet came in and took you out of the bag, I knew once I saw you that you had passed but I couldn't let go of the hope yet. She checked you out and said those words that made me fall apart more than I thought I would, "I'm so sorry she as passed hun, she is gone."

She said that you were trying to lay eggs. I didn't understand this because you have never been with a male. She informed me that female beardies can lay eggs without a male present just as birds can. If I only would have known. I don't believe I ever saw anything about this in all the information on beardies. I never looked deep into breeding yet because I wasn't ready to breed you so I thought there was no need. I now know that this is an important issue with female beardies and will pay attention to this detail in the future. I will also pass on this knowledge to others.

I am so sorry sweety. So sorry I didn't notice any change in you. I will love and remember you aways. Thank you for the time you have shared with me. Thank you for making me fall in love with bearded dragons. Other dragons will come and unfortunately go, and although I will love them deeply I don't think any animal will ever have a place in my heart like you did!! You touched so many people with your loving and wonderful personality - Thank you for being the best pet ever!!

Below is the in which she was burried in. We saw it and new it was perfect. She was burried with her bed, towel, and blankie.

Here is where we burried her. We are going to plant flowers and make some decorative stones.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Im so sorry for your loss. I truly dont know what I would do if one of my girls passed. Im so sorry.

 

[jessica305]

I'm so sorry for your loss but because of this website and a certain member on her my beardie is alive. I was told I bought a male but he started acting weird 2 weeks ago...well he is a she and laid eggs tonight. I'm hoping she make threw to the morning. Your story will help a lot of people. It helped me =)

 

[Seven65]

Discussion of the subject is actually quite common on these forums. There are a threads in the behavior, heath, breeding, and ER section that talk about it on some level every week, if not in the original question, then as a suggested answer/cause of the problem in question. I don't know if knowing about it would have helped your situation in particular, but it's quite possible. If they don't think there's a safe place to lay their eggs they will hold onto them and become egg bound which can be fatal. Some signs of having a gravid female are digging, restlessness and in many cases you can feel the eggs in their belly. If people see these symptoms they should consider making a lay box with damp soil where the female can safely lay her eggs. It's a shame that this has happened, sorry for your loss.

 

[vickson420]

So sorry to hear about your beardie.
As for what happened to her today it sounds like she became egg bound,correct?All female beardie have the ability to lay infertile eggs at any time in their life.There is no definate way to avoid this as it is part of their natural cycle.Some females however can go their entire life without ever having infertile eggs.The first year of life is generally a freebie and most females get away without laying however I have seen beardie as young as 9-10 months lay clutches of infertile eggs,mine included.Also no one should ever think that because their beardie is several years old that they are in the clear as this is just not true.Any change in climate,humidity,environment,season or even a proximity to a male can jumpstart this process.The best thing to do is to watch for the signs of being gravid.The process and symptoms are identical to that of one who is gravid with fertile eggs.Change in appetite,energy level and excessive digging are all signs of this.As is weight gain and initially even weight loss.The important thing to remember during this period is a laybox must be provided and extra calcium should be administered to avoid egg binding.Egg binding is where the egg actually becomes lodged internally and cannot be passed without medical intervention.This is the most common cause of death in a gravid female.Make sure the female is well hydrated as dehydration can cause this as well.
Again I am so sorry for you loss and thank you for taking the time and posting this warning for all to see.I know it was hard for you but hopefully it will help save someone else from going through the horrible experience you went through today.
RIP Bubbies

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Awww, sorry to hear about your loss....

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh I am very sorry for your loss of Bubbies.
The medical term is egg stasis or dystocia. It unfortunately can be fatal. I am sorry that you did not know about the possibility of that type of complication.
As Vicky said, it is fairly common. One reason is because the sex is not determined soon enough for the person to be on the lookout for problems such as those.

We are here for you.
Tracie

 

[dolphinsilversea01]

Thank you for your sweet thoughts, it means alot more than you know.
I didn't mean to make it sound at any time that people were not or are not helpful here, I believe the exact opposite and tell everyone I can about this place. I knew/know that reptiles, or any animal that can produce eggs can become egg bound, but since I never saw it myself in any discussions I just never put the two together I guess - bubbie being egg layer and so can get egg bound. I know, it sounds sad and pathetic even in a way, but I just want to point it out for those who may not know this at all, or may have a brain fart on the situation like I did. I still believe that it is important enough that maybe an article with that title, Female Egg Bound for example or something similar, and it just be about that should be made. I have read the articles and go back to them often when I feel is needed, but I have not and do not go to all the different categories of discussion as I didn't feel at this time it was important to read up on breeding when I hadn't planned on doing any breeding at this time. And, it's not just here. I went back to the original book I bought and it mentions it in a simple sentence form in the breeding section of the book. In a way this makes sense to me, but yet doesn't as it can happen when breeding is not an issue for someone.

Jessica: I am so glad to hear your beardie is doing good!! I didn't notice any difference in her behavior, her appetite, anything. She did seem a bit sleepy, but she would do that about once a week anyway so overall there was no change in anything. At least not one that was noticeable to me and I spent alot of time with her. If I had noticed anything I would have been on here with great quickness or taken her to a vet.

Point: I think it should be made known as a common sense thing. It is already something I am informing associates about at my work and letting them know it is as important of a fact as brumation or impaction. So I am trying to do that here as well .. just to let it be known.