Fatty liver disease help

[sweetiepie]

Hi, my dragon has been poorly on and off since I bought her just over a year ago, she's roughly 18 months old. She had problems with reoccurring RI'S then started laying eggs in December, she then went onto laying more or less constantly, with the case of egg peritonitis in February, she was then spayed in April when she was strong enough for the recovery. Since then she has been off her food and sleeping alot, she had had fluid in her tummy for roughly 2 months, she's been back at vets tonight, he has said she has 1 of 2 things, fatty liver disease caused by the psychological stress and pysical stress of the constant egg laying as well as the lack of appetite. Her liver looked rather white on the ultrasound scan tonight, another was a infection from complications from the surgery, he's given her a stronger antibiotic so needs to go back every few days for the injection as well as continue with the baytril and anti inflammatory medication. He's said continue with the critical care formula, reptoboost daily and I'm force feeding her 6 locusts a day. He said its possible that we can reverse the damage to her liver, but considering fatty liver disease is caused by over eating is forcefeeding her bugs the right way to go? I'm unsure of how exactly it's reversed, he said that we need to kick start her liver into working properly again. Does anyone have any tips or been through this and come out the other side with a healthy dragon? Thanks x

 

[AHBD]

Hi there.....I'm so sorry that your poor girl is going through so much. How long has she been on the antibiotics ? The vet says that she MAY have an infection ? If you have her blood test results can you post them here ? Remember, all your X-rays, tests + such belong to you so you can request them. One of the mods. here named Tracie [ Drache613 ] can read the blood tests pretty well. Send her a p.m. to have a look at this thread.

For now I think 6 locusts a day sounds like too much along with the critical care, cut it to 3-4 at the most. Do you know her weight ? Is she a big girl or thin ? If she's thin he might want her to gain weight, but with a fatty liver she should eat more veggies. Most greens are good for the liver so you can make smoothies for her out of such ones as dandelion, arugula, turnip + mustard greens. If you're in the U.K I think you have what's called rocket, but look for the dandelion as well.

Someone else who has had a similar situation may add to the suggestions. I wish all the best for your girl and for you to hang in there !

 

[sweetiepie]

Hi, thank you for replying. No I don't have any of tge results, the vet is only in on a Wednesday so won't see him again till next week to ask but I will ask him for them. She's underweight, she's never really fully recovered from the issues she had while egg laying, she had egg peritonitis and oxytocin in the past to help move things along as she was refusing to lay. She has spent a lot of time on baytril, it's hard to say how long as it's been on and off since July 2014. More or less constantly since beginning of this year. The vet said her body condition is deteriorating so I think the vets worries about her loosing any more. I give her endive and escarole as well as spring greens daily, she either has blended or I put it in her mouth and the side and she will eat it.

 

[AHBD]

How much does she weigh and how long is she ? Can you post a few pics of her ? To do so, you can post them on photobucket or a similar site, then copy/paste the img/url here. If she's underweight then she does need the protein, but still not too much. Does she willingly eat the locusts ? It's great that she eats the greens, they are one of the best type of foods for the liver.

Since she's been on antibiotics so long it's going to wipe out all her good gut flora and compromise her immune system. To help replace the good bacteria that gets destroyed with the bad has she been on a probiotic like Acidophiliz +, Benebac or non dairy yogurt ? It's very important to give her something like that. You can also add a few drops of raw honey to her diet but it must be raw, unpasteurized like from a beekeeper or health store.

I hope your little girl can hang on !

 

[sweetiepie]

Will try post photos of her, never used photo bucket before. She's 17 inches long and weighs 355g but alot of that is fluid, she had a huge amount of fluid at the vets yesterday. At the moment I give her a mix of ccf, reptoboost, milk thistle, probiotics with bee pollen. She has that daily in a morning then her meds around tea time. I tried it the other way round but she seemed to perk up better with it this way round. She doesn't willingly eat anything, I have to open her mouth slightly and pop the locust or greens in and she will eat them that way. If she could she will sleep non stop all day but I cover up her hide holes during the day and she will stay relatively active. She's been out for a run around this morning and has had a bath in reptoboost. I bath her daily and give her extra water via syringe when she has her meds. Blood results only showed that she had increased white blood cell count which indicates a infection

 

[sweetiepie]

I can't get the photo url to paste, not sure If that's because I'm on my phone. The locusts she eats are only small, between size 3 and 4, Ive found those are easiest to get her to take.

 

[sweetiepie]

She had only recently started to build up her fat pads, they have started to deteriorate again hope this pic works, this is her today, she's quite alert when I make her get up


[url [/url]

 

[AHBD]

I'm not familiar with the locust sizes as we use crickets in the U.S , but if they are smallish then 5-6 daily may be a decent amount. If they were large it would probably be too much for a sick dragon. The Critical Care formula is pretty rich, too so that should be the max as far as protein but greens can be fed as much as she'll eat.

O.K, thanks for the pic. It came up just as I was about to submit this post. She does look fairly healthy there.....a bit thin near the tail base, but it's not a direct overhead shot. She looks very sweet .

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Are you able to find Milk Thistle extract to help with the liver issues? That was suggested & it is very good for liver help. Does the vet think her liver is failing or just having trouble?
What initially caused the fatty liver, the egg problems she has had most likely?
She does look very good in that picture, great colors too! I love the normal morphs.
Which antibiotic is she on right now, if any?

The Critical care is good, but high in calories. You could mix baby food in with the critical care along with some squash or greens to thin the critical care out to help limit the calories & or protein, too.
Are you keeping her tank around 80 overnight to help boost her immune system?
If you can get a copy of her blood test results, that would be great. I could take a look at them for you.

Tracie

 

[sweetiepie]

Thank you for replying Tracie. The vet said the fatty liver disease would be caused by the psychological stress and pysical stress of the constant egg laying, aswel as the lack of appetite. When she had her op in April he said he liver looked a little patchy but wasn't anything to worry about at the time but I started giving her milk thistle then, she has a pinch a day mixed in with the ccf. It's since the operation her health has started to decline, lathargic and sleeping all the time, she was eating live food and all of her greens up until a couple of months ago then suddenly stopped. l've ordered some collidal silver and serrapeptase as I've read they are good to help cleanse the liver and inflammation. Shes dark while she's sleeping but when I get her up she will go her lovely pale colour. She had issues with RI's also aswel as egg peritonitis, Coccidia and pinworms also, most recent test was clear a few weeks ago. She's currently on baytril and loxicom orally and a antibiotic injection which I can't remember the name of, she's back at weekend for another injection so will ask the nurse if she can print me off her blood results, she's had 2 lots of blood taken,earlier on in the year when she had the egg peritonitis and then again a couple of weeks ago.

 

[sweetiepie]

I use the small spoons you get in with the exo terra vitamin powders rather then the large scoop you get in with the critical care formula. I give her 4 scoops of those a day mixed in with around 4 to 5 ml of water, today I only gave her 2 of those spoons as I was worried she was having too much protein :/

 

[sweetiepie]

Right so let me check, I should give her more greens rather then forcing her to eat more bugs even though her fatty liver isn't caused by over eating like your typical fatty liver disease? My vet told me to give her as many bugs as she will take, but I don't want to make the issue worse so ive been giving her the 4 or 5 small locusts (probably smaller then the gap between her eyes) and giving her as much greens as she will take. There doesnt seem to be much information online about treatment

 

[AHBD]

I think it's O.K to give her a decent amount of bugs since they are smaller, but still plenty of greens.

I have a question though.....you say that her decline came AFTER the operation. What were her symptoms when the vet said that she had egg peritonitis ? Was she very ill ? That would have made her very ill and lethargic before the operation. So was she eating well before that ?

 

[sweetiepie]

She has had numerous issues with the egg laying, the egg peritonitis was in january/febuary, her spaying op was in April, With the egg perinotis she was very lathargic and had a swollen belly, which was full of fluid, she was very poorly but the baytril cleared up the infection and she became active and eating again but the duration between the clutches was getting closer together roughly 20 days inbetween and a couple of times needed help with oxytocin injections. She was getting thinner and thinner and wasn't having enough time to build herself back up before she was gravid again, so we made the decision to have her spayed, they removed more eggs during the op and she had only laid just over a week previous to that. After her op she has been lathargic but was still eating a full bowl of greens daily and a few bugs but stopped eating roughly 2 months after the op and hasn't eaten since. I think that covers it all

 

[sweetiepie]

I've read on previous posts that l carnitine is good for fatty liver disease, would this help? If so how would I give her it?