Eye and nostril problems

[Mimbulus]

Our Beardy has has a problem for quite some time now (months). His left eye has a clear viscous liquid seeping from it and he mostly keeps it closed unless we have recently cleared it. We have bathed it regularly using cooled pre-boiled water, removing the liquid using cotton buds which comes off in a stringy viscous liquid, used "liquid tears" and more recently fucithalmic vet drops (Fusidic acid 10mg/g). The vet is of the opinion that it is not a foreign body as we have done everything between us to wash it out if it was there in the first place. This photo was taken early in his illness.

Both nostrils are blocked up now. We have tried to keep them moist in the hope they would clear themselves, but they are now quite firmly blocked. Would it be ok to "pick" away the blockage?

Thinking it might be UVB related I have changed his UVB bulb about 4 weeks ago now. I have replaced with the same - He has an Arcadia 12%UVB (850mm long). He has a slate tile floor to his viv, so while some substrate such as calcium powder from crickets cant be ruled out, I dont think its related to that.

This pic was taken today following adding in fusidic acid drops so the liquid is that. But you can see his nostrils are blocked up and is the same the other side.

He seems quite "normal" in himself and has not lost weight and eats normally although his sight is clear effected as he does not "see" crickets to his left side.

The vet wants to put him under and take a sample the inside of his sinus for infection - but obviously this carries risk. Reality is that no local vet have much experience although the one we have is speaking to a zoo who has more reptile experience than himself.

Does anyone have any experience of what we are seeing here?

Thanks

Mim

 

[snazzyglasses]

How far away is the Arcadia tube? I believe the Arcadias are supposed to be about 12" or 30cm from the dragon, since they're pretty strong. Maybe you could also ask Tracie (username Drache 613), our resident beardie expert. She knows her stuff!
Those are the only things I can think of at the moment, sorry I hope everything gets figured out and your dragon feels better soon though!! <3

 

[Mimbulus]

Well. It's a fairly standard 4ft x 2ft x 2ft Viv so he is between 30cm and 60 cm from the UVB lamp at any time.

I cant seem to find Drache 613 is the member list. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Mim

 

[Mimbulus]

Ahh Drache613 (no space).

Got her. PM sent . Thanks

 

[snazzyglasses]

UVB distance sounds good (I think sometimes if it's too close it can irritate their eyes and cause watering, but that would still leave the question of his nostrils anyways. :?)
And oops! Sorry about that extra space in there.

 

[vampy]

The arcadia 850mm length is the t5 bulb, which is really powerful compared to the t8. It should be fine at the distance you have it, provided you don't have it with a reflector on...if you're using a reflector then it might still be too powerful for him.

Personally I'd turn off the UV for a week and see if there is any improvement. With the nose issue too, it certainly doesn't sound like a normal case of eyes being irritated by UV, but it's good to rule things out. It could be that the UV is causing the eye issue and his nose is just blocked due to shedding (though it doesn't look like that from the pic). Would the vet be willing to culture the exudate from the eye and see if anything grows, rather than risking putting him under to get a sample from elsewhere?

 

[Lurhstaap]

The eye problem is almost certainly an infection of some kind. I would be willing to bet money on that. The nostril blockage meanwhile may be from stuck shed... you should try bathing him and getting his muzzle wet -- obviously inhaling water is not an issue for him right now, so try to get the plugs in his nostrils wet, then VERY GENTLY rub them with a Q-tip soaked in innocuous oil such as vegetable or mineral oil. This may help loosen the plugs such that they can be gently removed. If they do not come out after doing this, or with gentle prying, don't try to force them off as that might hurt him.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh poor guy!
Which UVB light did you use prior to using the Arcadia D3 12%?
I would turn off the Arcadia right now, to allow his eyes to heal. What type of basking light are you using?
Is it a bright white light or a colored light? Is the basking light a daytime light with a bluish tint?
I would try an antibiotic eye ointment, have you tried that? Also try some sterile saline solution to help clean the eyes out also.
Are you using the T5 or the stronger bulb? It should be at least 12-16 inches from him mounted alongside of your basking bulb for safety.
What are your basking temperatures?

Tracie

 

[Mimbulus]

Thanks Tracie

OK. So I'll describe the setup. We have a 4ft x 2 ft x 2ft Viv. Laminated Chipboard with glass front and grill vented at along the length of the the back. Various wood bark allows him to get higher, lower. Slate tile floor. The UVB is provided from an 850mm long Arcadia 12% UVB lamp - without a reflector. I think its the T5 - but I'm not at home right now so can't double check. For Basking and temperature I'm using 2 white light basking spots with no reflectors - and no tint (don't recall the makes - may be reptiglow), with a more powerful at one end and a lower power in the middle. This achieves a temperature gradient from 100 in the top right to 80 bottom left.

I started with just the one spot - but found that the big tank was not getting up to a good temperature at the top end and the low was too low (or at least I felt it was). As far as I can tell they simply knock out white light and heat. Too much white light perhaps?

Do cut to the chase - If you have specific recommendations on the spots to use - or to switch to heat only lamp - then do just say so! This stuff is cheap compared to the vet bills! I'm more than happy to replace what I have to make sure I have the right set-up.

As far as ointments etc - I have been given Fusidic acid which I understand is an anti-bacterial ointment and been using twice a day for some time. I try to bath him as often as possible - but probably only achieve twice a week - I'll try and increase this. I'll also get some sterile saline from the pharmacy - I've been using pre-boiled water currently.

 

[vampy]

Bright white basking spots are what you want, definitely don't switch to a heat only bulb! When you get home though, do check that the bulbs you have don't have a neodymium coating on (i doubt you'd be able to see it, but you could check the brand and type of the bulb and look it up online)...the coating filters out a few wavelengths of light in the yellow part of the spectrum I think, which makes the light look whiter to humans, but isn't the best for the beardie, they really need the full spectrum of light to protect their eyes from the UV. If you do have that sort of bulb, you can replace it with any clear bulb that gives you the right temps...other basking bulbs, or household incandescent non energy saving bulbs are both fine.

Try turning your UV off for a week or so and see if it makes any difference. Poor little guy.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The fusidic acid should be fine. I would continue to use that to see if his eyes improve.
Which UVB did you use before you got the Arcadia D3 12%?
You are using a Reptiglo brand basking light?
I think the Sun Glo which is for basking is coated with Neodymium. As suggested, it is a coating used to increase the CRI but falsely increases it. This removes the yellow hue which is needed for reptiles. It is not brighter to their eyes, only ours. Do check the brand. I always like to use a regular clear household light bulb or a halogen light, they are both bright with good lumens.
I would keep the UVB light off for a bit to help.
The saline solution in conjunction with the fusidic acid will hopefully help out. At night you can also try a warm, moist herbal tea bag placed on his eyes for a few minutes before bedtime. Just put a damp washcloth over them to help hold in a little heat & moisture.
Your temperatures sound good with the ranges. I know larger tanks are harder to keep the ranges perfect.
It sounds like he could have a touch of respiratory issues from stress probably. Anytime they have a problem of any type going on, most times their immune system needs a boost. Try some bee pollen also to help with immune system function.
Are you keeping the tank around 80 at night also with a ceramic heat emitter?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Lurhstaap]

With the herbal tea bag I would particular recommend anything containing chamomile. Chamomile contains chemicals which are somewhat similar to opiates in their general effect on the body, which makes them both soothing in a sedative sense and capable of a limited degree of pain relief. In addition, the chamomile compounds are actually potentiators of the true opiates, which all animals produce naturally as their built-in painkillers and for other purposes. As such, chamomile might help his eye feel less achy even if it doesn't actually, directly promote healing (which I think it probably will; it seems to in humans, at least, in my experience.) You might even consider brewing some pure chamomile tea and giving him a very small amount (cooled, not hot!) in a dropper.

You may also consider acquiring a supply of powdered Acorus calamus (Sweet Flag) root. This plant's roots produce a ridiculous number of antimicrobial agents. I use it for my own personal wounds, illnesses, and such, as well as my mammal pets, and it works wonderfully. It's especially good for toothaches and open wounds. It seems to be more selective than traditional antibiotics which destroy one's entire gut flora -- I have not had the traditional antibiotic side effects while taking A. calamus root. As such, it might be useful for your dragon if the infection is a stubborn one and the usual medicines don't work. I've never had a reptile have a problem for which calamus would be appropriate, but it occurred to me that it might be helpful in a similar way to the tea bags. I usually just eat the powder but it tastes pretty terrible so most people prefer to brew a tea from it. You could either brew the tea and feed him a tiny bit of it via dropper or else pack the powder into a teabag-like baggie made of paper towel and wet it to use as a poultice similarly to the teabag. If absolutely nothing else, the calamus will reduce the pain and, if there is any swelling, it should help that go down too.

The good thing is that both chamomile and calamus are very common and inexpensive herbs. Acorus calamus may be a little harder to find offline depending on where you live and what type of herbal supply shops you have in your area but I know of a very good online supplier who often has so much he gives it away for free! And even when he is selling the stuff instead of giving it away it's always very inexpensive. I have gotten many herbs from this supplier and trust them. http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com

 

[Mimbulus]

Thank you both so very much. While I'm not expecting rapid changes - the most distressing thing is not knowing what to do or try. I can actually see that the tea bag will help both the eye and perhaps keep his nostril moist so it has a chance to soften and clear.

I'll be going home via the health food shop and the DIY store to change the bulbs regardless this evening. I'll also recheck night time temperatures - I have not re-set the min/max setting for a while so anything could be occuring! This is one advantage of using slate tiles is that they heat up in the day and then "release" at night helping keep temperatures up - but I don't have a night time heater. The room he's in never gets cold as such but If temp drop too much I'll address that. It's never been an issue - but I'll recheck regardless.

Chris

 

[Drache613]

Hello Chris,

How is he doing today, any changes I hope?
The tea bag regime should help quite a bit. I hope he doesn't mind it too much though!
Being sure the overnight temperatures are around 80 or so will help out as well. The tiles are very good for holding some heat, I agree.
Has he eaten pretty well the last few days?

Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[Mimbulus]

We think the camomile tea bag is helping (along with the sterile saline washes). We have also turned off the UVB for the time being. A friend came over and said she felt he looked a better than when she last saw him. It is almost as if the tea bag "lifts" the gunk from his eyes. His nostrils are have cleared a little - with the entrance now open - but with some gunk deeper down. He had not been feeding much - but ate 8 crickets today (with help admittedly - but before he was not even doing that).

His viv night time temps are a little down below 80 by the morning - so have put in a heat plate on the wall for the moment - but also got a ceramic heat bulb and habitat today which I'll fit tomorrow.

I'll post some pics tomorrow.

Mim