Eating very little + Gout

[MommyOfDragons]

Hello all! New user here. Nice to meet you and thanks for reading my lengthy post. I have 2 beardies - approx 4 months old . . I think (Petsmart didn't have a lot of info for me). Anyway, I believe my girl beardie fell from a high branch in the terrarium before sleeping one night because she was limping on her front left leg the next morning. She still ate, climbed and hopped strongly with her back legs. After a couple days, her appetite decreased (due to pain I assume) and I was worried because I had slacked on supplementation for 3 days prior to her injury and didn't know if she broke or dislocated it. So we visited the vet and the x-ray showed no break or dislocation, but there was a lot of swelling around the shoulder. There was stiffness without ability to extend her leg out normally. So the doctor said it was a sprain and prescribed an anti-inflammatory/pain killer (metacam). It was also reported that her bones felt normal and she is well hydrated. So I administered 0.02ml by mouth daily for the 1st 3 days and I could tell she was feeling better because she started walking better and eating more - not back to normal, but there WAS an improvement. But then I noticed her head vibrate. It only lasted 2 seconds and was very subtle. And it was only after I waved to her in an up and down motion from outside the terrarium and she followed my hand up and down with her head. I feel like that somehow encouraged the vibration. From day 4 on, I was to give her the metacam every other day (we are currently on day 7) and she started declining again. She's back to limping and kind of looks a little stiff now. I don't know if it's just because she's feeling bad pain again due to the 1 day on medication and 1 day off or because her condition is progressing. And I also don't know if the medication caused the head vibrating. Yesterday I saw her front limb tremble a bit for a couple seconds and today the head vibrating again. Also, I was holding her in my hand and saw her tail vibrating. Tomorrow morning I will call the vet and update her on what's happening and see what she recommends.

Here is some more info that may help:

40g terrarium:
10.0 Zoomed reptisun UVB tube on top of a mesh screen
100 watt basking bulb with a 95 degree F basking spot (75-80 degree cool side)
Temp at night is 70-75 degrees with 40% humidity
There is a bowl of water in the corner at the cool side

Fed twice a day - usual foods are:
some days crickets (from store), some days dubia roaches (from my breeding bin)
10% collard or dandelion greens (I need to start feeding them more veggies)
I recently tried superworms - She favored that and the greens after her injury. I am ordering some BSFL tomorrow and will add that to my "staple insects" list

For the past 3 days though, she hasn't been interested in food at all so I bought some wax worms. I know these are supposed to be candy, but I figured that it would be good for her to eat something rather than nothing. Yesterday she ate a total of 8 wax worms and today she ate 4 worms. She still has been drinking water this whole time. She laps it up from a teaspoon measure I place in front of her face.

Supplementation:
Calcium Carbonate w/D3 dusting on feeders 4 meals a week (could I be giving too much calcium?)
Multivitamin dusting on feeders 2 meals a week (this multi still contains calcium, D3, and phosphorus if that matters)
These supplements are the National Geographic brand

My other beardie shares the terrarium with her. He is doing great (eating like a little piggy - crickets, dubias, a few bites of greens, grapes and wax worms as a treat). He had a fecal test recently and has too much negative bacteria so he's on an antibiotic, probiotic, and colon rescue) He is huskier than her of course, but they are the same length (about 10inches). Should I separate them? Do you think he is affecting her health?

Any info is appreciated. Soooo sorry for the novel - just wanted to give you as much info to work off of. Thanks for your time! I hope my poor baby gets well soon. I'll let you know what the vet says.

 

[Rankins]

Dragons always do better housed seperate. I advise to never house them together unless mating is a goal.
I'm assuming the vibrating is pain related. Metacam is hard on the belly. I know firsthand because I have been on mobic (same stuff) due to a few back surgeries. I couldn't take it because of GI issues.
Since your seeing the vet again maybe you both can find something that will provide more help. Glad your going back in for another appointment because the current treatment plan isnt working or its taking longer than expected.

 

[MommyOfDragons]

Thank you, Rankins, for the speedy advice. I will work on getting another terrarium set up.

Update: I called the vet. She said to take her off the metacam for 5 days and see if there is an improvement. She brought up Metabolic Bone Disease. If my little beardie isn't doing well in 5 days then we're going to do a blood test to see if she's getting too much or too little calcium and to see if her liver and kidneys are functioning properly. She also reminded me that my boy beardie's bones felt on the softer side. I believe the UVB is working fine - bought it new Dec 22nd, 2016. Maybe the National Geographic brand of supplements is not good quality?

 

[CooperDragon]

Is your ReptiSun a T8 or a T5 tube? How far is it above the basking area? The distance will have a big effect on output and varies between light types.

I don't know about the Nat Geo supplements but their lighting is garbage. If it's just plain calcium then it probably doesn't make much difference. I like using Repashy calcium and vitamins. The Repashy Calcium Plus is a nice all-in-one solution that can be used at every feeding on the bugs.

 

[MommyOfDragons]

Cooper Dragon, the bulb is a T8. I took out a tall tree a few days ago in fear she would fall and injure herself further, but right now where she is positioned on her log, she is 12 inches from the bulb. Before her injury, she would hang out on the rock which is 10 inches from the bulb or the tall tree which was about 5 inches away.

 

[CooperDragon]

That's a stretch for a T8. I would upgrade to a T5. The output of a T8 drops off quite a bit beyond 8'' while a T8 has optimal (and quite good) output at 12''. This is what I use and it's fantastic. http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/22-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/ Proper UVB exposure has a major effect on digestion, calcium processing, and overall health so it's well worth the investment to use a high end UVB light.

 

[Vh621]

Also just thought I would add that mesh screening blocks some of the uvb if you don't have a reflector. Hope your beardie feels better.

 

[MommyOfDragons]

Beardie declining again...

Hello everyone. I need some more help with my girl beardie. She was doing well after I took her off the metacam medication. Her appetite increased and she was moving around normally - no more head vibrating. I then separated her from my boy beardie as he was almost twice her size. I couldn't afford another nice front-opening tank, but a friend donated a 40gal aquarium tank so that is what my girl beardie is in now. The mesh holes on top are bigger than his and I am using the Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube T5. It runs the entire length of the tank. Her basking area gets as hot as 105 degrees. She was more active and alert at first (3 weeks ago) and her appetite increased. She still doesn't eat as much as she's supposed to though. My boy beardie is an eating machine, but she will only consume 6 crickets or dubias and 3 bites of collard greens a day. I occasionally give her wax worms too and have recently been giving her hornworms, but these last 2 days she hasn't been interested in the hornworms which I found strange because she loves worms. She definitely isn't growing and is now a third the size of my boy beardie.

I believe the husbandry is all correct. I can give you more detail, pictures and exact measurements if you'd like. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Oh and she always has stress marks on her tummy (except for when she's sleeping of course). I also have the 2 tanks across from each other so she can see him. Should I move her to a different room? I'm also thinking that maybe she has parasites or something that is inhibiting the absorption of nutrients. I always dust her food with something whether it's calcium powder, multivitamin, or probiotic.

I'm afraid she might be developing MBD too. Her tail is starting to get wavy and bumpy. She looks like she's being cautious when she walks as well, either that or her arms are getting stiff. And she's also having difficulty pulling herself up on her log. I think I'm going to at least drop of a fecal sample at the vet (which is $67 . . . does that seem high to you guys?) to rule out parasites.

Well, I think I've written enough for now. Please let me know what you experienced beardie owners think. Any help is appreciated.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'm sorry to hear she's running into further issues. The T5 should be quite good in a tank that size. How is her weight? Weighing her is probably the best way of measuring growth rather than comparing her to another dragon which can be deceptive. The wavy tail doesn't sound good. Which supplements are you using? I think a fecal test is a good idea. $67 is more than I pay for a fecal test but the prices vary quite a lot depending on location so it's still probably worth it. Can you post some current photos of her and her setup? It may also be worth moving their tanks so they aren't within sight of eachother although if neither of them are showing aggression or interest in eachother then it may not be a problem.

 

[MommyOfDragons]

CooperDragon, thanks so much getting back to me super quick. I will take pictures of the set up and weigh her when I get home tonight.

 

[MommyOfDragons]

 

[MommyOfDragons]

A few days ago her entire body got soooooo dark it was scary. She's usually that color in the pic of her tail. When I take her out of the tank, her tail gets super dark, almost black. Was worried it was tail rot, but I think it's just because she was cold, it goes back to normal color when back inside the tank.

 

[CooperDragon]

She looks to be in decent shape overall. The tail kink is pretty small but I'd keep a close eye on it along with her weight to see how that is trending. I keep a log of Darwin's weight and it helps to follow how his weight is trending (there are spikes up and down but the trend line tells a lot) so I suggest doing similar. Have you tried offering her some silk worms or black soldier fly larvae? Perhaps an additional feeder option would catch her interest.

 

[kingofnobbys]

In addition - consider
>>> handfeeding the insects to her for now (all of them).... this way you will know for sure what's been eaten and when
>>> if she cant at the moment handle live insect - BUGPIE is a good option given by feeding syringe
>>> consider getting a good feeding syringe (reuseable with a large bore) + an 8Gauge (maybe) crop feeding needle and some HERPABOOST (or equivalent if it's hard to find there) and maybe some CARNIVORE CRITICAL CARE to get past this rough patch and give these along with oral doses of CALCIVET.
It's not necessary to insert the crop needle all the way down her throat into her stomach, just past her lips and teeth and then give the liquid food suppliments (likely thick slurries - hence the need for a large bore needle and syringe) a little at a time in her mouth.

 

[AHBD]

It would be good to move the other dragon from her view ASAP, even though they were housed together all she knows is that this dragon she sees now from a different perspective is there all the time and may seem more frightening.

And depending on the size of the hornworms she may be feeling very full , plus the fact that her home has been re-arranged , that can cause a bit of stress that could affect her appetite as well.