Early brumation?

[Trouble119]

For the past four weeks, my 1 year old male dragon has been eating less and less. Lately, he's been refusing any sort of food at all and just wants to burrow under his paper towels and sleep. He's active if he's taken out of his tank and occasionally will bask on his branches.

Husbandry:
Warm spot: 95-100F
Cool side: usually 85-90F
UVB: changed in early August. It's a reptisun 10.0
Tank: 40 gallon breeder
Temperatures checked with a probe and a temp gun.

His greens are usually mustard, turnip, and collard. He gets endives and basil switched off for every other day. His insects are roaches, superworms, and hornworms.

He's weighed weekly and he's been losing about 5-7 grams a week. He was 400 grams when this all started and his fat reserves are still nice and full.

He was taken to the vet not long ago and given a clean bill of health, including a poop check for parasites.

His last stool was on the 17th and it appeared very healthy. He gets baths every other day for at least 15 minutes.

We are going through an unusual period of cold right now, so I'm wondering if it might have set off his brumation instincts early. What should I do? Should I just leave him alone? Should I continue offering food daily?

 

[CooperDragon]

The lack of appetite and the weight loss is concerning. Does he have a blackened beard? What kind of checks did the vet do during the visit? The food you're offering is good. Have you tried offering some treat worms to gain his interest? A hornworm or butter worm perhaps? How far is your UVB light from the basking spot? Your basking temperature is OK (maybe bump it a few degrees if you can by raising the basking site) but your cool side is a bit too warm. I'd shoot for between 75-85 if you can.

 

[Trouble119]

Nope, his beard isn't black.

Last vet visit, his vet checked his teeth (I was concerned about a discoloration which turned out to be normal) and a fecal float and a smear. I think the next time Ngarehu poops, I'll take it in for another check, just to be sure.

I've offered butterworms, but he won't take them. Weird, because they're usually one of his favorites. I'll be getting hornworms in the mail very soon though.

His UVB is about six inches away.

I've readjusted his lights to get the cool side a bit cooler and bump up the warm side temps a bit.

Quick picture of his set-up that I snapped this morning. It's a bit cut off; to the right, he has a hammock in a corner, and to the left are his food dishes. One dish is his leafy greens, another holds his roaches, and the visible one is for worms.

EDIT: Just got a tiny poop sample. I'll try to bring it into his vet later today or tomorrow at the latest. It's not sloppy or particularly smelly, but it is kinda stringy.

ANOTHER EDIT: got him to eat a few butterworms and some supers by waiting until he was gaping and popping them in his mouth. x_x; Not the best, I know, but he ate them happily enough. Seemed to chew them more than usual.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'm glad you got him to eat something. I'd keep monitoring his weight and the fecal check certainly can't hurt. The setup looks good to me but a second opinion is welcome. I don't see any obvious problems other than the weight loss and lack of appetite. Do you see any signs of a shed coming on?

 

[Trouble119]

I'm glad too. I was thinking of pureeing some food for him and syringe-feeding... or maybe getting reptiboost or something. Do you have any experience with reptiboost or similar products?

He already seems a bit more active. He's sitting on his basking spot instead of going 'meeeeh I want to sleeep'. Maybe the temps were just a bit too low.

Nope, no signs of any shed.

 

[CooperDragon]

Yes I do have quite a bit of experience with Repta Boost and Carnivore Care and syringe feeding. Those are calorie bombs designed to jump start sick dragons. You can also syringe feed baby food veggies or a puree of what is in a normal salad for him. Syringe feeding can be stressful and I'd consider it a last resort if he starts to lose a lot of weight and refuses to eat anything. For now, it's probably better to keep offering variety and getting him to eat his normal diet, even if it requires a bit of sneak attack while gaping.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The basking temps were probably ok, but bumping them up a little for now will be fine.
Be sure to watch the cooler end temperatures though, so he doesn't get overheated. Usually it's good to keep them in a range of 78-82 with a more definite basking spot for thermoregulation.
The weight loss is really the only concern. Hopefully they wont find anything in the fecal.

Those types of products are great with helping put on a little bit of weight for them.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Trouble119]

I heard back from the vet! His fecal is clear, thankfully.

STILL haven't gotten those hornworms. :/ According to the tracking number, they haven't moved since the 19th, so I'm assuming they are either dead or the package has gotten lost.

If he still doesn't eat even hornworms, I'm going to make an appointment with his vet for some bloodwork.

EDIT: Oh! I forgot to mention. His weigh day is today and he's gained a few grams from last week. But since he's been getting baths every day, some of that is probably water weight.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh that is too bad you didn't get the hornworms! It is sad for the worms, because of the heat it wont be a good death for them. I would definitely get a refund on them.
At least he did gain a little bit of weight though from last week.
Is he basking a decent amount now? The UVB placement looks good, it is directly over head & close by to the basking light, too.
Wow, his fecal was clear again, that is good news then!
I really hope he is doing better!

Tracie

 

[Trouble119]

I've hit another bad luck streak with hornworms. I ordered some more from a different company and they ran out! Luckily, they have silkworms, so I snagged some. He usually likes silkies.

He's definitely basking more now. Not quite his energetic self, but at least he's not lying around in one corner of his cage all day. I started giving him a mix of reptiboost, a touch of bene-bac, and a bit of calcium. He takes it like a champ without any beard fluffing or blackbearding.

Today's bath pictures to show how sharply his tail narrows at the base. Some of that is water distortion, but it really does narrow pretty sharply.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

He is very pretty & looked like he was enjoying his bath.
You are sure he is male & not female? A lot of females' tails taper more than males' do.
At least he is basking more also, hopefully that will continue. I am glad you got some silkies ordered now, maybe he will like those now! Are you expecting them this week?
It sounds like he doesn't mind his reptiboost feedings either. It makes it so much easier when they cooperate.

Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[Trouble119]

Thank you! c: He's a picky eater, but he's my gorgeous picky eater. Such a sweetheart too.

I'm only 90% sure he's male. He has sizeable pores, his tail shows two lines when there's a flashlight pressed against it, and he was sold to me as a 'probable male'. I took in a rescue beardie yesterday (a 5 year old male----currently in the isolation room) who has MASSIVE pores, so I'm guessing they grow as the dragon does?

Weigh day was today and he reached 392 grams. Some of it is PROBABLY poop by now. I'm reducing the reptiboost feeding to every other day for the time being to reduce stress as much as possible.

He's usually pretty fond of silkies, so I have good hopes! They should be here on Friday, along with the replacement hornworms from the first place. Ngarehu actually licked his salad today.

 

[Trouble119]

FINALLY got my hands on some hornworms! Ngarehu ate THREE and they were pretty big ones too. Draco doesn't know what to do with his. Mostly he seems to be trying to engage it in a staring contest.

Sadly, the silkworms melted because FedEx decided to leave them in the middle of my driveway in the sun, despite the PERISHABLE label on the box.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Geez, I read that wrong. LOL A female's tail will be wide at the base but sharply narrows more towards the end. If he has some decent sized pores he is likely male! He sure is pretty or should I say handsome.
The pores do increase in size as they mature, correct.
Oh that is good news you did get some hornworms, but awful the poor silkworms died such a horrible death like that.
Has he had any salad lately either?
Also did you get the cooler end temperatures down to a lower range, in the 78-82 range?

Tracie

 

[Trouble119]

Thank you for the clarification and the compliments. c: He is one of the prettiest dragons I've ever seen. And really well-tempered! I rarely see him black-beard.

I did get the temps down. They're between 75 and 80F now.

He hasn't had any salad though. I'm trying out new things to see if he'll take anything. Just got some red peppers since I heard red is stimulating for them. I have completely stopped feeding him reptiboost for now since he's still eating hornworms well on his own. He eats 1-2 large dusted worms a day. (which is good because GUESS WHAT? The order that got lost on the 18th? It turned up. Along with the replacement order. So now I have like 120 hornworms to use up. Thank goodness Draco likes them too.)

He hasn't pooped since the 21st, so I gave him a bit of olive oil today.