Dudley's Fake Rock Sculpture Thread! :)

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Jess

Extreme Poster
Since I have some Styrofoam, Great Stuff, and hot glue laying around, I figured I would make some use out of it! So today I started building rock sculptures for Dudleys viv: A big basking platform, and a cave/platform thingy for the cool side... So far, its looking pretty sweet! Ill add some pics tomorrow, after I finish putting the Great Stuff on it. :D

I had a few questions about the grout and sealant though. What brands/types of grout are recommended? If there is any specific kind that is really good, please tell me. I'm kinda mental when it comes to this kind of building-type stuff. :roll:
And paint... Is there color that I mix into the grout, or can I just use acrylic paint and/or spray paint? Would it be a good idea to mix sand into the grout to give it some texture?
Last but not least, I'm confused on what I should use as a sealant. Ive heard of people using Modge Podge and Silicone, but Im not sure if there is a specific kind to use? Obviously I want something that can withstand Dudleys abuse, for at least a year or two. Water proof would be a good idea too, so I can just wipe it down if it gets dirty.

Thanks in advance! :D
 

BadCon

Sub-Adult Member
Any grout will do, but Polyblend is available everywhere and is of good quality. Get a light colored grout, white if you can, as it will be easier to dye a certain color. I personally use a mix of sanded and non-sanded, as sanded grout is much stronger, but non-sanded can be thinned down more. I start by using non-sanded grout in a soupy consistency for the first 2 layers. I then use a mixture of 3 to 1 non-sanded to sanded grout in the consistency of syrup. I only start adding color on the 4th layer, with a 50/50 mix of grouts. I personally use concrete coloring, as a little bit goes a long way. However, basic acrylic hoby paints will work, and there is usually a greater variety of colors. Some people paint over the grout, others just add highlights once its all done. Doesn't really matter either way, but if you paint over the grout completely, then a couple different sealing options are open to you.

To seal it, you have several options...and I am going way overboard explaining them here, but its something that comes up a lot. I'm sure there are more complete references on the net.

#1. Perhaps the safest and easiest to get is Mod Podge (matte or gloss). Durable finish, but it isn't water proof. Wiping with a damp rag is fine, but prolonged contact with water will break it down. Non-toxic at any stage, its a great sealer for cautious beardy parents. It's so cheap and it dries so fast, that resealing every few months isn't that big of a hassle. I've only ever needed to reseal my grout structures once in 2yrs, and that's with my dirtiest beardy. My clean beardy has never had his structures recoated, and they are still in great condition. This coats painted and unpainted grout equally well.

#2. Mod Podge also makes a "hardcoat" variety, and an outdoor version. The hardcoat is very tough, and its water resistant. A bit slicker then standard mod podge, but overall a nice product. The outdoor mode podge I haven't been able to find anywhere, but it claims to be very resilient to water, while still being non-toxic. If you can find this, that's what I'd use. Second choice would be the hard coat. A bit more expensive then standard mod podge, but if durability is a concern, this is the better product.

#3. Shields All #50 acrylic sealant. Available online, very water resilient, and non-toxic. Only available online, but if you don't mind the cost...a good buy. Coats painted and unpainted grout.

The above products cure very quickly and have no fumes. I'd say they are reptile safe after just 24hrs, but let the items cure for a few days to be on the safe side. Mod Podged items will stick to hard surfaces like tile if they don't have at least a day or so to cure. My vivs have tile floors, and I've had an item glue itself tot he floor on more than one occasion :p. Hard coat mod podge seems to be a lot better in this regard. There isn't a lot of info on Shields All. But looking at its formulation, it should be pretty fast curing. Its a very safe product.


The products below have much longer cure times, and go up a couple notches in the hazardous scale.

#4. Shellac - the substance itself is completely inert and non-toxic. However, its the alcohol they thin it with that's noxious as hell. Shellac is moderately durable, but cleaning solutions will strip it away. It can also melt at high temperatures. I'd use this as a sealant for the cage walls of a desert viv, not high traffic cage furniture. It cures pretty fast, but I'd say at least 3 days until you put it back in the viv. Be warned, spraying the stuff in confined areas will get you higher then the goodyear blimp during the Superbowl (ventilated area a must!), and not in the good way (if there is a good way). Only thing I've ever used that made me more light headed was aerosolized acetone. Shellac only lasts a few months when mixed...you can order pure shellac chunks on the internet, then mix them yourself. Bullseye spray shellac is the brand you'll see in most hardware stores. They also sell brush on, but in large quantities you probably won't use. I'm sure it would coat unpainted grout, but I couldn't tell you how well it would adhere.

#5. Polycrylic and other water based wood finishes. VERY durable, but they take weeks to cure. 1 week minimum, but some people suggest a full month. You could also use traditional polyurethane, but its a 2 week+ cure time, and more troublesome to use. Extremely durable however. Polycrylic is the recommended viv sealer everywhere, and it will hold up to water and various cleaning chemicals better then most. Same as shellac regarding unpainted grout...I'm sure it would work, but I can't give you a definite answer.

#6 Epoxy based coatings - Epoxies are almost always inert and non-toxic when cured. Durability beyond the realm of any other finish, and are completely water proof. Because of the difficulties associated with their application, and long cure times, I'd avoid using them unless it was a semi-aquatic vivarium. People who make wooden fish tanks use various epoxies as the final sealing layer. There is even a brand of epoxy coatings marketed towards herp owners...but its pricey.

#7. Generic spray can clearcoat. If you give it enough cure time, it should be fine. But with the variability among products, cure time could be anywhere from a week to 3 months. So stick with known variables, and choose from something above. Nothing enamel based should be used, and oil based products should be passed on as well.

Anything you can't use? Yes, the stuff that might seem logical to use, grout sealer, is not actually a good choice. Penetrating stone and grout sealers are rather toxic, even when cured. Its not a big deal for a tile floor, as you aren't crawling on it belly first. But to a basking beardy, the prolonged contact might cause issues. Topcoat sealers, like those described above, typically cure to a PH balanced level...most penetrating sealers don't. Additionally, grout on its own is very caustic, and penetrating sealers don't seal the grout completely. Top coat sealers will create a physical barrier between the caustic grout and the skin of your animal. Its actually the cement within the grout that's caustic. Also, penetrating sealers don't protect against surface wear and obviously won't work at all if you coated the grout with anything, such as paint. There are non-toxic options in this category, but you'll be hard pressed to find them at a hardware store. Avoid oil based products.

It really comes down to this. Once cured, almost all hard coatings are inert and safe for direct contact (lacquers and enamels should be avoided). The biggest variable is how long they take to cure. Water based finishes would be ideal, as they are typically easier to work with. Most people would tell you to avoid oil based products...and I agree. Not worth the risk. I personally use Mod Podge for all my grout platforms because its cheap, easy to acquire, safe for my lizards, and most importantly safe for me. Given how many of these structures I make, the fact I can use mod podge indoors with poor ventilation and bare hands is a huge selling point.
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Original Poster
Wow, thanks SO much for all of the info! That really helps!

After reading through all of the sealants, Im definatly thinking that Mod Podge would be the best option. I actually already have a bunch of it, and Dudley is a pretty clean beardie- He is "Potty trained" to go in the bath, and when he does go in his cage, he goes in a specific spot and not of the decorations LOL. Even if I have to re-seal it every once in a while, it doesnt seem like a big deal. Plus, I like the fact that it doesnt have fumes. :)

Hopefully I can put the Great Stuff on today, so I can finish sculpting it! Ill look for that Polyblend at the hardware store. Does it come with sand in it, or do I mix the sand in?
 

BadCon

Sub-Adult Member
There are sanded and non-sanded grout variety's. You could probably get non-sanded and then mix your own sand in. I couldn't tell you the ratios for this however, but it wouldn't take much (5 to 1 mabye). Aggregate in concrete ads strength, which is why sanded grout is stronger. Using a bit of sanded grout also gives the structures some texture, because once you coat them with mod podge, they will be a little slick. I'd start off with 5 to 1 mixture of non sanded grout to actual sand, and remember to do the first couple coats with pure non-sanded grout.

Once you start, you'll get a feel for the consistency, so don't worry to much about it. Everyone has a different method.
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Original Poster
Here is what I have so far!

IMG_2427.jpg

IMG_2425.jpg

IMG_2406.jpg


I got the sanded and non-sanded Polyblend, so Im ready to start the grout as soon as the Great Stuff is dont shrinking... Im sooo excited! :mrgreen:
 

BadCon

Sub-Adult Member
Is your dragon a basking spot pooper? If so, you might want to take a knife and smooth out the foam on the top of those structures, so they are easier to clean. Also, make the first layer of grout pretty runny....because it will have a hard time sticking to the great stuff at first. Once you get a couple thin coats, you should be good to go.

If you find there are some cracks and crevices the grout won't fill, use some wall spackle, then cover in a layer of grout. I find this is the easiest way to fill hard to get to areas, as the spackle stays where you put it, and dries hard. Also, if you find the structures are a bit wobbly after grouting, you can take some cardboard slivers and use them as shims during the sealing phase. I simply use the mod podge to glue them on, then I seal right over them so they are protected from moisture. I level the structures when they are foam still, so any imbalance at the end is simply variations in grout thickness. If you find the structure is really wobbly, you'll need to add some more grout.

Looking great so far!
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Original Poster
Thanks! You are SOOO helpful, LOL!

99.9% of the time, Dudley either poops in the bath or he will get off of his basking structure to go. :) Im not entirely sure if Im keeping all the bumpyness, but I figured it couldnt hurt to put it on.

Oh, Im not quite finished leveling it out yet. At first I didnt know that it shrunk, so I leveled in out the day after it dried. But when I was going to put the grout on, I found out it shrunk... So now its all weird and un-level, and I have to wait until its finished shrinking untill I do more to it. :p Im thinking of making it an inch or 2 shorter too.

BTW, do you know if you can use Mod Podge to seal tile too? I wanted to go with some slate or sandstone, but I dont want and "juices" soaking into it, LOL!
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Original Poster
Hi! :)

Just wanted to thank you for all of your help with the rock scupltures! Im almost done with my 2nd one (Just another coat of Mod Podge, and Im finished!) and they look rather awesome, if I do say so myself, LOL. :)
The basking platform is compleley finished, and the cave is the one I'm still working on. I'll add more pics when I am all finished, but here are the most recent ones I have:

The platform with sanded grout, right before it was painted:
DSC00266.jpg

DSC00266.jpg


The cave, before I put on sanded grout:
DSC00244.jpg

DSC00243.jpg
 

libby

Member
a little input for the mod podge outdoor. The AC Moore store i work at p\t does have it so you may want to check their stores or on-line.
 
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