Dragon flipping onto back constantly, lethargic

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor Steve, so he had a rough day then flipping himself over again. Did he eat anything today?
The cricket, poor thing, probably was or got too hot as suggested. Sometimes they make it if you put the ones doing that type of behavior into a separate bin to get them hydrated & cooled down.
The shipping can sometimes be quite traumatizing for them.
He was bobbing at you?
It is hard being patient while they recover. He has a ways to go but keep working with him.

Tracie

 

[Shenlong]

Great to read he's been doing better, sure he's loving keeping you..and us on our toes i'm not a vet; which is still a good idea to take him to see, but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that the flipping now is kind of the reverse of what it was, where he was getting weaker and moving around chances are that he was falling over and getting stuck with the lack of energy he had, and stopped the flipping because he stopped moving as much, now he's starting to get his strength back he will start moving again but is still too weak to stay upright all the time or flip himself back over and the black beard shows he now has the will to show that he's not impressed at least and knows that now he has someone to pay attention to what he's saying would just keep everything as close to the ground as possible for now though and keep up the great work, really do hope he keeps getting better

 

[SilverGravity]

Alright, I'm glad to hear that the flipping should be too much of a concern then. I'll just keep a closer eye on him in case he does it again so I can right him. As for the bobbing, I'm not even sure it was bobbing, or just him moving his head his head up and down for some other reason. It looked like he was trying, and it was also just after I fed him he started soing it slowly. I handfed him a little, then he started bobbing or moving his head for some reason then didn't eat anymore. I'm guessing it might have been to just tell me to back off and that he was done, but not sure.

And he's still going to go to the vet. Tomorrow I should be able to see if they'll pay for the vet bills, but also its my last day of school so I should have more time to look into vets and watch him more. Haven't had the time unfortunately to try and find one.

EDIT:

He hasn't eaten very much and so far refused to drink today. I'm pretty sure why he does that think that looks like head bobbing is just to try to swallow better. He's been sleeping a lot which is making it hard to feed him and give him water, since I can never seem to catch him when he's awake or active at all.

 

[Derz13]

Hey silver!
Glad to hear he is in better hands now!
What are the temps that you have going on in his tank at the moment?

 

[SilverGravity]

I'm actually not sure, my own thermometer has not come in yet although the it was ordered orobably a month ago as I think what I had ordered that day got put on back order, and no one I know has a mercury thermometer or anything else I could use. The teacher had said it was 104, but I'm pretty sure it's not that high. The school should have extras I would think, so I was planning on getting one tomorrow.

 

[AHBD]

Poor fella, he almost certainly has serious nutritional deficiencies, calcium and vitamin B are the ones that affect motor skills the most. If you have good vitamin + calcium powder, mix it with something that he really likes [ try a variety of baby food,squash, smoothies made of veggies + fruits, etc ] Even raw honey watered down or pure fruit juice mixed with water [ so he doesn't get so much sugar ] can be used to try + get the nutrients in him. That along with proper lighting [ sunshine's the best ] will hopefully help him. Good for you for trying to help him, be ready for a possibly long + hard struggle. If you look for a vet, be sure that they have experience with beardies.

 

[SilverGravity]

Alright, thanks for the info. I think I'll definitely have to start feeding him smoothies since I can't get him to eat too much on his own. I'll need a feeding syringe if I do that, right? Also, is there a certain type of baby food I should give him, brand wise, or does any baby food work? I'm not quite sure how I would feed him through a syringe either, I have no experience with feeding a lizard that way.

 

[Derz13]

It is a bit on the pricey side...but if you go to your local hardware store they have infrared thermometer guns that are in my opinion the most accurate, definitely more accurate than any of the ones sold in pet stores, mercury thermometers are suitable but can be off by a few degrees and proper temperatures are very important for keeping a healthy dragon (as you already know) but also even more important when rehabilitating a sick dragon. For Steve, and even your very own dragon, I think that getting one of those nifty temp guns would be a good fit. I am located in South Florida, here at my local home depot I think they were like at max. $30, I think I went with the brand RYOBI, it has never given me problems and I have had it for about a year. Please consider, as Steve will not eat if he feels the temperature is not adequate for his body to digest properly!

Also, since he is not eating, I would maybe consider going with a nutritional formula like OxBow Carnivore care only because he has gone so long without proper nutrients..and even though uvb and heat exposure needs to be near perfect before even thinking about proper nutrients. Gradually adding this in to his daily rehab regimen might help. Also, it can be mixed with extra water to aid in hydration since you mentioned he hasn't been taking water as readily today.
Here is a link to purchase through Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Oxbow-Carnivore-Care-Supplement-2-5-Ounce/dp/B006H38VZ0?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
Some people would mix with Critical care meant for herbivores, I have never done this due to some of the ingredients, like timothy hay. I just don't know, and have yet to research if that is okay for them so I just use the carni care for now. But maybe someone else will comment on that!
Syringe feed with a syringe from the vet (w/o needle of course :lol: ) or the dropper you have from your school. But syringes are better because you can monitor his daily intake to track any improvement in appetite.

 

[AHBD]

I agree, Oxbow Critical Care would be beneficial. Until you can get some,try the baby food [ most brands should be fine], just look for no added sugar and low sodium. Squash, peas, green beans,chicken. First just drip a bit on his mouth + hopefully he'll start licking it. You can also gently wedge the feeding syringe [ a plastic one, not glass ..most drug stores carry them ] in the side of his mouth + slowly push it in.

 

[Derz13]

Alright, thanks for the info. I think I'll definitely have to start feeding him smoothies since I can't get him to eat too much on his own. I'll need a feeding syringe if I do that, right? Also, is there a certain type of baby food I should give him, brand wise, or does any baby food work? I'm not quite sure how I would feed him through a syringe either, I have no experience with feeding a lizard that way.

Haha we posted about the same time, I must've read your mind!!!
It can be easy some days and very hard other days to syringe feed, depending on the dragon. You can try doing what you did with the water, dripping it on his nose and hoping he laps it up, and then once he starts licking just continue to slowly pump more out on the tip of his nose. If he is reluctant to start licking, something that I have found successful is to carefully *slightly* pull down the side of his mouth just enough for an opening and use your syringe to insert some baby food/smoothie/supplement, since it is already in their mouths, they will usually more than likely try to remove it from the sides of the mouth and start eating/licking. This is the way we got very sick dragons to take formula at the vet I used to work at.

 

[SpacialCoogs]

When I was feeding my sick beardie with a syringe I would put a little on the point of her snout. She would lick it then allow me to slowly feed her the rest of the syringe by licking it.

Sometimes I would have to force her to eat. My vet recommended holding her then gently pulling her lower lip down. You put a little food from the syringe in the op ening and she would usually allow me to feed her once she tasted it. She sometimes bit the syringe.

 

[SilverGravity]

I had actually ordered this acurite thermometer so I could get the temp of the hot and cool side of the tank, it's the one that hasn't come in yet. Hoping it comes in soon, but until then I think I'll have to deal with mercury. However my dad already said if he doesn't get an email back (he's emailed the company twice now asking where the lights and thermometer were) soon then he'd be willing to reorder, so I could get one of those temperature guns from a store nearby.

I'll be sure to order the Oxbow Critical Care tonight, and will try to pick up baby food and a syringe tomorrow. Thanks! Last question- what would be the best vitamin supplements? For Steve or for beardies in general, really. I've got the calcium powder, but I think I need to pick up some vitamin powder.

 

[AHBD]

Rep-Cal Herptivite is good. By the way, where did you order your lights + stuff from + how long have you been waiting ? I order everything from Dr. Foster + Smith and get it right when I'm supposed to.

 

[Derz13]

Again, depending on location, the brand may be difficult but I swaer by Repashy products. They are proven to be the highest quality nutritional supplements for reptiles. I currently use Calcium Plus for my BD. It has calcium and vitamins all in one and I dust his meals with just that powder. They make one that is just vitamins if you already have a calcium supplement that you like. I think it is called SuperVite, not to be confused with their SuperVeggie one, meant mostly for strict herbivores. But once you run out of your current calcium powder I would give the CalciumPlus a good look. I LOVE it!

 

[SilverGravity]

The thermometer was ordered right from the acurite website, and tech lights were from Amazon. It's been about 3 weeks. I have a feeling I need to reorder them from somewhere else. :/

Alright! I'll look into both of those for vitamin supplements!