Dovah just had a NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE. Someone please help

[DovahDad]

EDIT 1/20/15: For anyone who finds this thread, Dovah is no no longer in emergency status. For updates, please see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=213457


I think we came really close to drowning our 4 mo. old BD with a food mixture just now. I'm not being melodramatic here.

He's got another serious problem underlying this more immediate one as well. We've been syringe feeding our BD for over two weeks now - we had to start when he was on Baytril for an RI and we've been force feeding for over 2 weeks because he ignores everything we give him. Used to like crickets and phoenix worms.

He's been off Baytril for 6 days now, and still no return of appetite. He was 38 g at the vet about 20 days ago and is now about 32 g. His hip bones are sticking out.

So tonight we were syringe feeding him as usual, and he thrashed to get free like he often does. I think we put more than usual in his mouth at once. He then climbed all the way up me to my head, freaking out, and I held him in my hands. We then noticed he wasn't breathing and he slowly lowered his head, closed his eyes and went limp.

At this point I felt sure we had filled his lungs with food, which is something I've been afraid of, force feeding him. I shook him and held him head down while tapping on his back and chest, and he seemed to wake up. He then ran over to my fiancee, who squeezed him gently a few times.

At this point he THRASHED HIS WHOLE BODY BACK AND FORTH RAPIDLY AND VIOLENTLY AND BABY FOOD FLEW OUT OF HIS MOUTH LANDING EVERYWHERE. He then went completely limp and looked dead, very black.

I held him vertical, head down and kept tapping his back with my fingers and shaking him, which after several seconds caused him to gasp a bit, but then he went still again.

At this point I was completely desperate so I put my lips on his nostrils and puffed air gently. This seemed to jumpstart him, because he began to heave and cough (like this at 0:23, from a video I made yesterday for a post about his RI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y00eXleDE9M). He did this for several minutes. My fiancee grabbed the basking lamp and held it over him, which seemed to help.

His breathing gradually became more frequent, though he's still only visibly breathing about once every 30 seconds. Occasionally he takes 3-4 heavy breaths in a row. He's sitting propped up on his forelegs with his head up and eyes closed.

Does anyone have any idea what his problems are - both his longterm problem and right now? I'm about to call the vet and leave a message to get him in there again. Regarding his appetite problem and lethargy, I'm starting to wonder if he's got parasites.

Thanks for reading my rant. I'm a little shaken up right now, since I was pretty sure we watched him literally die in our hands. I'm still not sure if he'll make it through the night.

 

[DovahDad]

Well, he's still alive as of right now. I decided he does need to sleep so the lights are out, but he's under the heat emitter. Just shone a light on him and he opened his eyes and was breathing, so I'll take that as a win.

I'll talk to the vet tomorrow about an appointment. We've got to get to the root of his problem because lord knows I'm terrified to keep force feeding him now.

 

[Esther19]

I think the "right now" problem is as you suspected: food in his lungs. I think between both your interventions and his thrashing around a lot of that might have been cleared. I would arrange him on a towel with a gentle decline for his head and torso so any remaining food can drain.

Have you been giving any probiotic while he is on the Baytril? It is a pretty strong drug. His tummy needs a probiotic to restore the beneficial gut flora. The probiotic should be given 6 hours apart from the drug. You can use SOY yogurt, or a commercially prepared probiotic like Bene-bac or Acidophilus+. This will help even if he has finished the Baytril.

If you must force-feed, aim the syringe towards the side of his mouth, not directly towards the back of his throat.

Right now, I would run a bath of nice warm water, and hold him in the water for a few minutes.
Not too long, because of his RI, but often a little bath will have a restorative effect.

Please let us know how he is doing. And how you both are faring through this scare.

 

[CooperDragon]

Oh man that sounds terrifying! I'm so glad to hear you were able to resuscitate him. Letting him sleep a bit warmer under the heat emitter is a good idea. Hopefully your vet will be able to get to the bottom of this quickly. When I syringe feed, I usually point it to the side or come from above and point it down on his tongue but still worry about getting too much in his mouth at once. Dundee is quite a bit bigger though, so it's probably easier to aim than it would be with a little guy.

 

[Esther19]

Yes, that's a win. He probably does need his sleep. If you could put him at an incline, that would help. The heat emitter is good. Have you tried making a slurry of greens (collards or mustard greens and water/unsweetened juice) in the blender? I strain mine, then give it via syringe. Even the most determined-not-to-eat dragons I have will usually lick up a bit of that. Supplements can be added.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh my that is so scary & very upsetting. He likely did get some food into his lungs somehow.
When giving food, how far down the throat are you placing the syringe? Will he not willingly take anything when dropping food onto the end of his nose at all? As suggested, try going in from the side so it helps to avoid the glottis in the back of his throat.
Definitely keep him around 80 overnight to help boost his immune system, along with keeping him on a slight decline to help any fluids drain out.
He is not on the Baytril now, correct?
Remember, I mentioned this on your other thread that it sometimes takes a week or two for their appetite to come back following a round or two of medications.
I am glad he is recovering right now. Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[DovahDad]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've calmed down a bit since the "incident," but we're not force feeding this morning. I'll let him sleep in a bit and (very carefully) feed him on lunch if he won't eat on his own.

To answer some questions I saw in no particular order:

• Yes, he is off the Baytril and has been for about 7 days
• I haven't tried a veggie slurry because he never voluntarily eats veggies, but since I'm forcing it on him anyway it could be a good idea
• We do feed into the side of his mouth rather than straight back, but with his struggling he probably got some in his windpipe
• Yes, we have been giving him Acidophiliz+ for a couple days, and soy yogurt a few days before that
• No, he doesn't lick anything we've tried off his nose or off the syringe

I'll talk to the vet today and get him in there to hopefully see what's up. I'll also save his next poo to bring in so they can test it. Thanks again for the replies!

 

[AHBD]

Hii there...poor little guy. ! Good thing that you got him to come around. Right now I think he needs to rest....I would not to him to the vet, nor would I force feed anything. Some beardies hate it and the stress does far more harm than good. As Tracie mentioned, they can take up to a week to start eating again, so let him be. Unfortunately [ but hopefully not ] this may have tipped him into a worse case scenario....the last thing you want is to put more unwanted meds. down his throat [ dewormer ]. He needs rest, not a deworming. Please let him be for a few day, maybe dribbling a bit of water on his snout daily to give him the choice to drink. What he's been through has might have already taken a toll, but I hope he can rally.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How are things going today, has he gotten some rest & done some basking this afternoon?
I hope his colors are better & that he is nice & calm also. Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[DovahDad]

EDIT 1/20/15: For anyone who finds this thread, Dovah is no no longer in emergency status. For updates, please see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=213457


Hi Tracie, thanks for asking. He's about how he has been today - lethargic and not voluntarily eating, but still moves around when picked up and will climb you when you try to feed him.

I took him to the vet earlier. She couldn't tell whether he still has an RI or not. She couldn't hear any wheezing or crackling with the stethoscope. She was leaning toward more baytril based on his recent coughing/heaving (I showed her the video from yesterday afternoon), but agreed with me it's a close risk-benefit call when you factor in the harm the medicine does to his appetite (and possibly kidneys). I mentioned some people use nebulizer baytril treatments and she and the tech dug up their nebulizer and worked up a dosing regimen for me and gave me the saline and baytril I'd need to nebulize him.

They also checked a fresh poo sample I brought in under the microscope and decided there are no parasites, though the rod bacteria slightly outnumbers the coccus. They didn't see that as a problem, though she recommended we keep giving him probiotics, and to make sure he's getting enough calcium.

Per her recommendations I added his calcium powder and a probiotic powder to the baby food, Pedialyte and Jump Start mixture we're feeding him. We're also being more careful to feed him slowly, a little at a time. He seemed calmer tonight during the process and didn't do any coughing/heaving, so I think we're doing better at it.

At this point I'm not convinced he still has an RI. I'm not seeing any of the symptoms he had when he clearly had one. Lately the coughing/heaving thing has seemed to follow force feeding sessions, and happened numerous times right after the near-drowning. This leads me to believe it has been due to aspirated food rather than an RI. I'll hold off on any more baytril to try and help his appetite.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling update! To summarize, we'll just keep carefully force feeding him with protein, fat, starch, pedialyte and probiotics until he eats on his own. If he shows RI symptoms, we'll nebulize him. That's the plan right now.

EDIT: In writing that huge info dump I didn't answer your few questions! He did bask on his log under the heat lamp for a good part of the afternoon, and his color is normal. If he'd just eat I'd swear he was totally fine.

 

[Menolly]

Hello there,
I've had my fair share of respiratory issues with my bearded dragon and eating issues. Mines been pretty stubborn as well. He's not one to lick it off his nose, however when I've given a slurry or baby food I pull down his lip so that he can get a taste. That usually works for me because he's a fatty who can't resist food, for me it was just going through several foods till I found something that he liked.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I posted on your other thread, too.
I am glad to hear he is basking some anyway so hopefully he is feeling better.
It sounds like he may also be having a tantrem of a sorts when being made to eat which complicates things.
The probiotics should be given for awhile too.
Not nebulizing right now will probably help out a lot with his appetite, too. Great, if you do decide to nebulize I can double check the regime for you.
I am glad to hear the fecal is ok then, nothing outrageous is going on.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie