Dieing Beardie

[Esther19]

Hooray for poop!!!

 

[Menolly07]

I love reading the sickly threads from start to finish, thinking, "Maybe I'll have something to contribute," but getting to the end to see the joyful exclamation, "Hey, Houston... We have Dragon Crap..." Nevermind then.... Back to my book. :study:

 

[usnavygm07]

lol thanks for the laugh

 

[usnavygm07]

So to update you guys. I have been hand feeding for a month now. There has been no change in his condition and havent seen any weight gain. He is just skin and bone. Did another trip to the vet and they suggest putting him down. I just dont know if I have the heart to do it. He eats well when I hand feed him we just dont know why he isnt improving. Suggestions and comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Menolly07]

Have you been able to take him outside at all? Honest to goodness, there really is something about outside that jump starts a beardie's appetite sometimes. The real sunlight, just an hour of it, does something.

What are you hand feeding?

If he's able to eat worms I know that butterworms have a high fat content and also calcium. They have an appetite stimulating colour and smell for beardies as well. Additionally, they can be refrigerated and are a completely soft bodied worm.

Waxworms are also high fat and soft bodied BUT they have a high phosphorus ratio. I don't think that's an ideal choice for your guy right now.

Baby food with some additions can help. Squash baby food is a favourite of mine. There is a ReptiAid powder or Carnivore Care (Oxbow is the brand on the CC I -believe-). I add the powder until the baby food is just thickened to pancake batter and syringe on the nose tip to get started.

The butterworms and babyfood are my best suggestion. And if he stops pooping again, a couple drops of veg oil. The last thing you want is his system shutting itself down. You also don't want to be too aggressive with the oil laxative either.

Make sure his basking are stays nice and hot. Treat him like he's in his first year, 105°f for his bask. You want him to digest fast, eat a lot and often to put on weight (like he's a growing baby dragon), frequent warm water soakings to stay hydrated and keep those poops moving.

 

[Esther19]

I don't get the feeling that your beardie is ready to give up. I have a beloved special needs girl that my respected vet said that it was time to euthanize last August. She fought so hard that I decided to bring her home. I have been syringe feeding her for 2 years now, and must keep her with me (or with a beardie sitter) 24 hours a day. As long as she holds on and shows me that she is not yet ready to go, I am respecting that. Not all folks have the ability to do that, but I can take her to class with me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you might want to take your cue from your beardie. He is eating, though hand fed. Both my healthy boys prefer the hand feeding, too. He will let you know when it is time for him to go.

I agree with the advice given you by Menolly. I would add to make sure that your dragon stays well-hydrated. Monitor tank temps carefully during this time of year when the weather is changing.

I know that you are in a difficult position. Decisions such as the one facing you are difficult and heartbreaking to make. I would lovingly suggest that you just take each day at a time and enjoy the time you have with your beardie. Try not to stress about what to do. The answer will come to you in time.
Continuing to keep you in my thoughts and prayers,
Esther

 

[usnavygm07]

He has been being fed with a syringe, baby food mixed with vits and calcium. I also give him water daily with the syringe and bathing 2x a week. One thing I forgot to ask is the last 2 weeks I have found him twice on his back, I honestly thought he had died until I picked him up. Now there is no way he ended up on his back from falling off his rock or tree branch because he was in the middle of his large tank and he also doesnt have the strength to climb. Could that be his way of wanting to die?, Ive heard its bad when they are on their back. Oh and to the lady hand feeding for 2 years, Im willing to keep hand feeding I just want to make sure he is not suffering and the vet said he might be.

 

[Esther19]

My girl, Cissy, flips over often, too, which is why I cannot leave her unattended. When I got her as a wee girl, she had metabolic bone disease. When diagnosed, we undertook to heal her bones with liquid calcium and a Powersun MVB. Her bones did regain their mass, but her muscles never did recover. I even tried holding her in the tub to encourage movement of her muscles for a good bit of time, and they never did recover. In August, my vet diagnosed her with Lou Gehrig's disease after consulting with other herp specialists.

In her case, when she tries to move, she wiggles her backside, tries to use her arms and legs, and also employs her chin to achieve forward movement. She gets frustrated with this as it is inefficient and barrel rolls to get where she is going more easily. Often, she gets stuck on her back. You are right. This is bad. Lacking a diaphragm their lungs will collapse in this position and they will die.

When she started flipping so often, I too asked if this was her way of attempted suicide. One of the moderators with several dragons and years of experience told me that that is not part of their make up; that they have a very strong instinct to survive.

I have expressed my concern as to her quality of life, but he thinks she is doing okay. I am interested to know how your vet thinks your beardie is suffering. Do you agree? I still believe that in the end, your dragon will let you know what is best.

 

[Menolly07]

I can only tell you my theory when it comes to animals.

They have a very strong will to survive. They have a tolerance for discomfort and pain that belays what we comprehend. They simply want so badly to live. It's in their make up, ingrained so firmly into their instinct and coded into their DNA. None so much as a reptile. That's why when people talk about their instinct to flee, hide, fight above all odds they often talk about their lizard brain.

I truly feel that none of us can tell you yes or no on the thing that is morally or physically the right choice for your companion. This includes your vet.

You need to look to him and yourself, his face and eyes. I believe they don't understand our words, but they understand intent. Sometimes you need to hold them and get face to face with a companion animal and ask, "My friend, what do YOU want? What do you need? Do you want to fight? Are you too tired?"

It sounds so hokey, but I swear I've gotten answered in ways that brokered no question. Eyes that closed with a tired sigh but also an enthusiastic pawing and licking. These were mammals, but beardies have faces, eyes and expressions of their own that we get to know.

Maybe try asking your friend. It may not give you am answer, but maybe it might too. It couldn't hurt at least. And if you aren't sure then you don't have to trust it either. As long as you can fight, he can borrow strength from you too. If he's eating still. That does speak a lot for his will.

 

[herpgirl2510]

I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given I just think at some point quality of life has to come into play. Beardies may carry on for months even years in a sick state where we are hand feeding they cannot move very well they are very thin etc.. I think it is important to think are they suffering in pain it's not like we would know. Sometimes I think as humans we have such a hard time ending a life that it almost becomes selfish on our part because it is a horrible hard thing to do but it is done out of love to ease suffering. I am not saying that is the decision to make in this case I understand a few weeks is not the time many beardies make recoveries I figured I would just throw that out there. And as for euthanizing with a gun even though it is humane it sounds shocking to people. There are younger people on this site to who would find it shocking and upsetting.

 

[sweetiepie9]

I've been through what you're going through and my dragon did survive, what I added to the mix was this: Carnivore Care, bee pollen and Acidophiluz+ This all helped and after a year of eating all this, Sweetie started eating crickets and greens again & regained all her strength.

I would also recommend a bath daily, to help with rehydration. Electrolytes would also help, even with a weekly bath, it's easy for a dragon to get very dehydrated when brumating. I get my liquids at Tracie's site www.bug-de-lite.com I've found the Acidophuliz (a good probiotic liquid for beardies) and electrolytes helped my beardies get their energy back after this long winter. I have 5 adult beardie males and an 8 mo old male, too, who's just new to me, have been raising rescued dragons for 7 years and have gotten a lot of advice from other people who rescue, as well as Tracie & other moderators here.

I wish there was a way to find out why some dragons get so sick after brumation and others don't have a problem. Rubio, my 5 yr old, brumated for over 2 months and it took over a month of giving him all of the above with calcium, vit/min & babyfood for him to get back to normal, even then it wasn't until 2 weeks ago that he was fully recovered.

I so feel for you, and I'm hoping that your boy recovers on his own with the good care you're giving him. I also wanted to add, that flipping over isn't good for them, but they don't necessarily die from it. I have a 10 year old dragon, Lonzo, who flipped over a lot a year ago, he has arthritis in his back and that's caused his tail to sort of wag, it also caused him to flip over. He survived all this but his right lung ceased to function. A year later, he's still getting around, having only 1 lung to breathe through isn't stopping him from enjoying life. Though back last year, I was so afraid I would lose him.

So good luck, hopefully this helps some,
Deb

 

[usnavygm07]

Thank you guys for all the advice and support. Im going to try a few of the things you suggested. On a good note today was 85f outside so I opened a window with a bunch of sun and stuck him in it. He is still there and I he is keeping his eyes open which he almost never does for any period of time. I will post updates.

 

[bunnyrut]

Exactly how old is your UVB? have you tried replacing it? it could be faulty. Mr Dargon was a little shaky when he first woke up, and he seemed to be getting worse. But i bought him a new UVB and there was a complete change in him.

I have the Arcadia 12%. If you can bring him outside to sit in the sun do it.

do you have Reptaid? that is a great thing to have on hand for any sick reptile.

 

[usnavygm07]

I bought a new 10.0 reptusin in November he is due for a new one in 3 weeks. Please note that when I rescued him at the end of October he had never had a uvb light his whole life. The people that had him had no clue so his first 2 yrs I can assume he must have suffered some kind of damage to him.

 

[Cherie]

I would go on and replace the uvb. Both of my boys started acting really lazy (more so than usual) and lethargic. It wasn't time to replace the bulbs but I did anyway. They both started acting better. Personally, I think some do not last six months so I started replacing mine at five months.

I really hope your baby is doing better. I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

I too want to thank you for your service.