Dewey Possible Seizure - Now Not Eating

[DeweysMom]

Dewey gave me a very big scare Thursday morning (which was our Thanksgiving). I woke up to the sound of him scratching at the wall of his viv. I jumped up thinking he had fallen off of his rock and was trying to get back up. Well, he was laying on the floor and his legs were flailing all around. It looked like he was trying to run or swim against the wall, but obviously he wasn’t getting anywhere. When I picked him up he was flat like a pancake and his mouth was wide open. I don’t know if I startled him and that was his reaction to it or if maybe he was having a seizure, I just don’t know. At that point he was also breathing very heavily. I held him until his breathing calmed down and I put him back in his viv so I could take a shower. I was planning on rushing him to the ER vet. When I was in the shower I got to thinking that the ER vets here aren’t experienced with exotics (they didn’t know what to do with my ferret when I had one so I don’t see them have experience with beardies) so I decided to monitor him until Friday until we could get in to see his normal vet. The rest of Thursday, he was seemingly fine, just a little on the sluggish side and he didn’t want to eat anything.

Friday came, I called his vet and found out they were still closed. I decided to keep an eye on him again on Friday to make sure he was doing ok, which he was. He looked a lot better than Thursday. I gave him a bath and he pooped a normal looking poop. He was VERY active even for Dewey! I let him out of his for about a half hour and he ran all over the room. He had his happy colors on and everything, but he’s still not eating. So I decided once again to wait until this morning to get in to see his vet. Well, I just called the vets office and was told the specialist vet who we’d need to see is off today! Argh! So I set up an appointment for Monday at 5:30pm.

So far today Dewey looks fine. He’s being active and wants out of his viv. The only problem now is that he’s still not eating. Not even his favorite hornworms which he’ll normally eat as many as I give him. Those are like candy for a kid to Dewey. He LOVES them!

I’m not sure what to do or what’s wrong with him. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....it doesn't sound like typical symptoms that could be analyzed, but is it possible that he was suddenly frightened by anything in the room ? I've seen 1-2 of my beardies get terrified and flip out when outside, they have great eyesight....were there many more people or pets around than usual?. After a fright [ or possible seizure ] it would put a damper on the normal appetite. Is he still behaving normally now ? Hopefully it's just a one time thing.

 

[DeweysMom]

It was early in the morning when it happened and it was just me and my two dogs in the room. All three of us were in bed so nothing should’ve spooked him. He seems very normal at times, but other times he seems really sluggish. He’s been unusually active trying to get out of his viv and wanting to run around the room. He’s still not eating on his own so I started giving him some chicken and squash baby food to get something in his belly. I gave him a bath this morning and had to hold his head up for about half a minute before he picked it up and held it up on his own. He never does that! I did notice yesterday at one point that he tilted his head so that he was looking down and he stayed like that for several seconds before snapping out of it. Shortly after that when I took him out and put him on the floor he walked in circles a few times before straightening out and walking normally. I’m really beginning to wonder if he has some kind of neurological issue going on as well as his heart problems. I’m getting a really bad feeling about tomorrow’s appt. I have a feeling this will be my last day with him.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that, I know you must feel pretty devastated. Although that may end up being the outcome, maybe give it some time [ if you want to ] to see how he will do and how it progresses. Is he of good weight ? He may live with a neurological problem for a while. I'm pretty sure you have the right lights + supplements. Some things you could do to make life easier is to lessen the frequency of baths, and keep his basking areas low in the tank to prevent a fall. As long as you can get baby food in him, just add a little extra water to it, that can keep him hydrated. Offer food as you have and see if his appetite returns on some days. So those are just a few suggestions...maybe the vets input will help you decide.

 

[DeweysMom]

I weighed him yesterday and he was 554 grams. I've already lessened his baths to once or twice a week. It's chilly here now so I don't want to risk that.

I did a quick search about beardies walking in circles and the general consensus seems to be that MBD is a cause. I've suspected for quite a while that has MBD, but I have been giving him .6cc liquid calcium 3x a week for roughly the past year so I'm not sure if that could be it or not. Would the vets (one who specializes in MBD) have a stronger type of calcium available or maybe like a booster type to treat it quicker if that's what he has?

I've been using ReptiSun bulbs for his entire life, but he did go through a phase where he didn't want to eat and therefore didn't get the calcium he should've. However, I don't think it would be long enough to cause MBD, but then again he's my first, one, and only so I could be mistaken. Then of course he got sick a few times since then and stopped eating. That's why I switched to liquid calcium.

 

[DeweysMom]

So here’s the scoop.

First of all, Dewey is home!! My fears of losing him today did not turn into reality.

We went to the vets today, but unfortunately have no real answers as to what’s going on with him. The vet did his exam and said his lungs and heart sound perfect. You may remember he’s had issues in the past filling up with fluids and is now on a diuretic daily. So that made me happy.

We discussed the possibility of him having MBD so the vet ran the blood tests. His calcium level is fine. So that ruled out MBD. His organ functions are fine according to the numbers given on the tests. The only issue that his blood tests showed was an elevated white cell count. I think he said it came back at 14000 (don’t remember what’s normal). Since none of the tests gave the vet a definite answer he prescribed sulfatrim (antibiotic) to treat for 14 days and metacam (pain med) to treat for 3 days.

I asked if the blood tests he ran check the vitamin levels and he said they did not. He said that a lot of those tests aren’t really reliable and that they’re very expensive. In doing all the research I did over the weekend I’m wondering if I need to start supplementing with vit B. I didn’t discuss that part with the vet. What do you think?

 

[AHBD]

Well that's all pretty good news, I'm happy for you ! I think that trying B vitamins is a good idea, and you probably know that you can get them from Drache613 [ her website ] or beardeddragon.co. Be sure to use a probiotic while he's on the antibiotics, too. Hopefully something will get results.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Mandy,

I am so sorry about Dewey, he has had a rough time. At least he is still with you!
He didn't indicate what type of infection?
The vitamin levels are hard to measure but did they measure the electrolytes also?
Do you have a copy of the blood tests?
How far is the Reptisun 10 tube bulb from him? Is it mounted on top of the screen top for him?

I am quite sure it is not your set up though.
How do his eyes look, are they normal or fixed/dilated? Are his colors normal also or is his beard darker than normal?

That is good news his x-rays didn't show any fluids around his heart & his lungs were clear, too.
Did he brumate at all yet this year?

Tracie

 

[DeweysMom]

Hi Tracie,

The vet couldn’t pinpoint anything really. He’s suspecting it’s an infection, but he said he wasn’t sure what type of infection. Nothing in his physical or blood work showed any red flags so it’s all speculation at this point.

I’m not sure on the electrolytes. I usually get a copy of the blood work, but for some reason I forgot to ask last night. I’ll call them in a little bit to see if they can fax me a copy.

He does still have a ReptiSun 10.0 bulb which is about 7-8” above his basking spot. We built him a crossfire viv and it’s actually mounted inside the enclosure so there’s no screen to get through. I did just order him a new one last week and it should be delivered tomorrow. I’m hoping a new bulb might help him out some more too. I’m actually thinking of replacing this new one in a few months instead of going to 6 months. Anything to help him, I’m all for at this point.

His eyes appear normal to me. He always has a bit of a black beard and that has never changed. When I had him out over the weekend so he could move around, his beard did get blacker as he ran around, but he appeared to be happy to me. He was licking this exploring as he normally does. His movements seemed normal. When he has his seizure episodes (he had another one this morning) his beard does get blacker, but it goes back to normal once he calms down again. When he’s just basking, it’s normal.

He did not bromate this year. My vet actually advised me to try to keep him awake and prevent him from bromating because of his heart/fluid issue. He hasn’t really seemed to be interested in brumating right now anyway. He seems a bit on the lazy side when he’s in his viv, but he’s also sick so that makes sense. When he’s out, he’s pretty active.

I just replied to your PM and will be placing an order with your ASAP. Thanks so much for your help.

Here are a couple of pics of Dewey taken over the weekend.

 

[DeweysMom]

Well, that was fast! Here are Dewey’s test results. I put a “*” in front of the high results. He said his glucose level could’ve been high from the stress and that he wasn’t too concerned about it.

* ALB 3.5 … (reference range 1.8 - 3.4)
AST 42 … (reference range 4 - 50)
Ca 13.6 … (reference range 5.0 – 27.4)
* GLU 259 … (reference range 149 - 253)
PHOS 4.7 … (reference range 3.1 – 8.1)
Potassium 3.6 … (reference range 2.6 – 5.0)
* TP 7.4 … (reference range 3.6 – 6.4)
Sodium 151 … (reference range 120 - 167)
URIC 1.5 … (reference range 1.8 – 7.0)
GLOB 3.8 … (reference range 1.4 – 3.2)
* CK 4187 … (reference range 0 - 2785)

Then there’s another sheet which says…
Avian/Reptile CBC + Profile (x1) – Result = Mild Leucocytosis

 

[Esther19]

Poor Dewey does look under the weather. I hope he gets to feeling better.

 

[DeweysMom]

Dewey didn’t look so good tonight. I’m so scared for him. He was sleeping on his basking platform when I got home. He had a blacker than normal beard which extended a little bit down towards his chest. I keep telling myself that he just started on meds yesterday and to give it time, but I also don’t want him suffering. Is it really humane to keep him going for a full 2 weeks under these conditions?

I do have other questions. I know he’s sick. I’m not questioning that at all, but is it possible he’s also thinking brumation which is making him look sicker than he is? I mean, the sleepiness and lethargic behavior, is it possible it’s a combination of illness and brumation?

His ReptiSun bulb. Is it possible that I got a bad bulb which could be a part of this? It’s just over 6 months old now. His new one will be here tomorrow. If it is a bad bulb, how soon after being under the new bulb should I start to see an improvement?

I’m also very worried now that I might be dealing with adenovirus. Yesterday he did the stargazing thing I’ve seen in photos while doing research. That really worries me too. If it’s that, I don’t think the prognosis is very good at this point.

I just don’t know what to do. I hate seeing him like this, but at the same time I want to give these treatments a try. I just don’t know how long to let things go before letting him go if there’s no improvement.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, he looks so cute - black beard and all - in those pics. Some dragons have the sweetest face, and he is one of them ! But how frustrating for you...I don't know what to suggest. I would say that the antibiotics are causing the distress....I hate to say that maybe you should go against Dr.'s advice, it's tricky to advise anyone to try one thing, omit another, etc. I just wonder if giving Dewey a med. that makes him feel bad is worth trying if there's no real clear issue to deal with. Not that the Dr. doesn't have Deweys best interest at heart. Maybe discontinue the a.b.'s if he keeps looking worse, and let him rest along with a bit of hydration and nutrition via syringe ?

 

[DeweysMom]

I'm really nervous about not giving him his antibiotics. He's got an infection of some kind so I worry that if I don't give it to him the infection will never clear up. It could also be the pain med they prescribed. Today will be his last dose of that so we'll see if he improves after that.

He had another episode this morning. It's weird that everytime that I've personally seen him have these episodes it's happened just shortly after his lights go on. I cover him up with a blanket or a shirt at night and I have a dark night light in his viv to keep his temps at 80°. Why would it happen only first thing in the morning? Maybe tomorrow when I wake him up I'll just pick him up and hold him for a few minutes and then put him directly on his basking platform to see if that'll prevent it from happening.

I tracked his new light this morning. It's on the FedX truck out for delivery. I'm so happy! I really hope by giving him a new light it'll help things improve. This really, really, really sucks. When I was holding him this morning I almost broke down telling him how sorry I was that I couldn't fix this for him. I just don't know what's going on for sure so it's hard to know which course of action to take and how much longer I should give him.

If this is somehow related to his light, how long do you think it'll take to see some improvement with a new light? I'm leaving work early today so as soon as it's delivered it's going right into his viv.

 

[DeweysMom]

Well, I think I saw a tiny improvement in Dewey's behavior today. Yesterday he spent his time basking and barely opened his eyes at all. This afternoon was more of the same, but he opened his eyes and looked around a few times. He's still very sick obviously, but I hope this is a sign that he's getting better slowly. I did get his new bulb in today and changed it a few hours ago. Is it possible it's already making him feel better?

I'm nervous for tomorrow morning. Mornings seem to be his rough time so we'll see how he does.

Here are a few pics of him today. The last pic is showing the mess we make with baby food. He's a spunky little guy for sure!