Changes in behavoir in my baby dragon!

[Romulous]

I recently bought a Bearded Dragon from a local pet store last week. I have read a lot of information on them, and my cousin is pretty familiar with their behaviors, but I'm still worried.

My dragon isn't tiny, but he's probably not more than 2 or 3 months old, still fitting in the palm of my hand. When we first got him he was very active and ate at least 20 crickets when we fed him in the morning and at night. I have been allowing him around 2 hours to heat up before he eats and another 2 hours to digest before I turn off his light at night. He has never touched any of his vegetables, lettuce, fruit, etc. One time i got him to chew a bit of the lettuce, but it was a tiny piece and he hasn't touched it since. I have given him baths and he seems to love that.

Starting yesterday he slept the entire day and didn't eat. I got him to eat a bit this morning, not very much, but he did poop. He no longer moves up on his log into the heat lamp, which he was obsessed with before, and he is uninterested in anything to do with water. Even when i pick him up he barely opens his eyes. He was sleeping so deeply in my hand today I thought he was dead.

I read a lot about the brumation, and that seems like what he is doing, but he is so young, I thought that they wouldn't get in that behavior until at least 6 months-a year. Is it normal for his behavior to change so drastically within a day? And should I be worried about his lack of interest in greens and fruit? Would it be smart to take him back to the pet store and ask them? Could this possibly be a sickness since he is very young still?

Any suggestions would be appreciated! I have become very attached to him and I would hate for something to be seriously wrong.

 

[RioReptiles]

It sounds to me like something with his setup maybe. They start liking veggies gradually as they get older so I think you're okay there. For one of the pro's to help you better, they are going to ask you to answer the questions below. It usually has something to do with lighting, temps, substrate, etc. Even if something is off a little bit, it can have a big effect on a young dragon like yours. Most everyone on this board has gone through this in the beginning and its the best way to target and fix any problems. Take care!

How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

 

[Romulous]

I thought it might have been the temperature in the cage, but I have checked that out. I really think he is too young to Brumate, and even if he was a girl and was ovulating I also think he/she is too young for that.

He just has NO preference about anything. Before he was basking, I could tell when he was hungry and searching for food, and he climbed up his log to have a bath. Now he will sleep wherever I put him down, has no interest in the crickets crawling on him, and fell asleep in the bath I gave him. He's just lethargic and uninterested.
He has been pooping every day too, so i don't think it is a problem with his digestive tract.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I will have to take him to the vet.

How old is your dragon? approx 1-2 months
How long have you had your dragon? 2 weeks
How long is your dragon? 4.5 inches head to tail
What is the sex of your dragon? Male (or so I am told)
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 50 gallon tank
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Red sand suggested by pet store
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Mercury Vapor
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Powersun UV 100w
How old is your UVB bulb? 2 weeks
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? My cage was DIY by my cousin so top has been built to let the light/bulb inside the cage (reduce fire hazard)
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? No
What are the basking temps? 95-105
What is the cool side temp? 87
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? I guess digital? They are sticker thermometers, one on each side of the cage.
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? From mid way up the side of the basking side
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. So far he will ONLY eat crickets, which he was loving. He will NOT eat vegetable.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? We feed him in the morning and at night
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? No we use calcium powder
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Calcium powder, ever 2 or 3 days
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? So far almost every day
Do you bath your dragon? How often? every 3-4 days
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? Yes, every day
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No, he has the 50 gallon to himself
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? No

 

[RioReptiles]

The only really bad thing I see right away is the sand. It has proven to be fatal with baby bearded dragons, it even says so on the back of the bags. Maybe feel the left side of his belly for a lump, just in case.

How big are the crickets he's eating? Is he showing any stress marks or darnkess of his beard or belly?

 

[Romulous]

I felt his stomach and it all feels pretty normal. i figured that it wasn't the sand because he has been pooping everyday. When I purchased the cage and all that the pet store owner said that the sand i was getting had small enough grains that they wouldn't get stuck in his digestive tract.

The crickets are small/medium sized. He does have one small dark line on his stomach. Could it be the lighting? What is the lighting/heating situation supposed to be at night? Even with my heat/uv light off it still doesn't get below 75. Should I have a heating light on all night?

 

[RioReptiles]

Actually, if you read around the forum, the small particles clump in their intestinal tract and over time cause blockage. Don't feel bad, I had my last dragon on it too and there is still a pile sand in my yard that I got rid of. I've had days my babies were not feeling normal and then be fine the next day.

Your using a good mercury vapor which should be at a distance of 6" to 12" away from your dragon. You didn't say how close he could get from it. At the recommended distance his basking area should get from 100ºF to 110ºF, but you probably need a better thermometer to figure it out. You don't have to keep it warm at night unless it gets below 65ºF so 75º is good.

Those thermometers aren't very accurage for spot reading, but you can get one from Wal Mart that has a probe with a wire attached to it. They cost about $12, the brand is Accutemp with indoor/outdoor readings so you can put the probe in the basking area and the body of it in the cool area. Sorry I don't have a pic and didn't catch that before, I was on my way to bed.
Or if you know a mechanic with a laser thermometer, they are very accurate for spot checking and Lowes has them for $24 in the electrical tool section.

Getting a fecal done at the vet is also a great idea in case its something else. If he is sick, he is pretty small and it could get the best of him fast. Try to bring poop with you since he is too small for them to get some from him. He sounds sooo cute!!

The rule for cricket size is no bigger than the space between his eyes, I even pull the legs off I'm so paranoid. Even 1 cricket has known to impact a small dragon.

also, small dragons can get dehydrated easy which can aid in impaction, it wouldn't hurt to give him baths more often and let him soak for 15 minutes or so a day in very warm, 95ºF water.

Let us know if he perks up, you got me worried. Cheryl

 

[Romulous]

I definitely think you're right. The thermometer I have isn't exactly wonderful, and you cant read it above 95 degrees so for all I know he's in there baking. I think I'll go over to Walmart and get a more accurate one so I can stop freaking out about it.

I had no idea that the sand could be such a threat. The dragon was originally for my bf (but I've completely fallen in love) so when I got it I pretty much let the pet store guy tell me what to get. I dont want to do carpet or anything like that, so I guess I will have to find something stone.

As for the bath's, although he was acting wierd the last time, I did realize that because he was in a pot it got the water colder a lot faster than i was realizing, so I think he just wasn't like the temperature. I'm going to try another one today.
And he did poop again today. I've never been so excited about feces

Thank you so much!!

 

[RioReptiles]

YAY!! I love baby dragon poop!!! I'm sorry, I have a baby that was impacted last week and I thought he wasn't gonna make it. He's a fighter though!

If you like stone, check out Home Depot or Lowes for Slate Tile or my favorite is the natural tumbled marble or travertine tiles. I've got one 12 x 12 slate under the basking light since it's dark and pulls heat well, then I've got the 6x6 tumbled stone/marble tiles around it. The tiles take up 2/3 rds the enclosure and I use a small towel on the cool side. HD has the big slate tiles for $2 each. Just don't get anything too smooth, its slippery. The rough stuff is good too cause it helps their claws wear down a little.

I've noticed that the warmer the water, sometimes they don't realize I've got them in it. I just sink their butts in it anyway but the ones who like it more go crazy and thrash like an alligator. Its so adorable.

I've got a Powersun too in one of my enclosures and it's pretty big, 2ft x 3ft and have it dropped down in about 4 inches in the top to get it closer to the basking area. They create a LOT of heat so I'm always zapping with the laser to make sure I'm not over doing it. I didn't think about the dimensions of your tank so it might be heating up way more than you think.

Sounds like he's doing better. That sand stains them so bad and then you can't get it off so thats another reason to get rid of it. The babies I rescued are all stained orange so I can't wait til they shed so I can see how pretty they really are.

Take care! See you around the forums I hope!

 

[lizardluvr]

I went throught he very same "panic" phase that you did. The first few days "Bolt" was eating normally, then after a few days, he stopped eating, seemed to be sleeping more, and didn't show much interest in anything. That lasted almost two weeks. I tried changing just about everything, until I finally found what worked. I ended up rearranging the lighting because it wasn't getting warm enough during the day. Once the basking temps were at an appropriate level, he started eating almost immediately. I also switched from the sand to a non-adhesive shelf liner that can be found in any Walmart and can easily be cleaned. It's great!!

 

[Romulous]

Thankfully he's started eating again, but now he's being picky and wont eat the crickets if he has a choice of worms. And I just noticed yesterday that he's been licking his sand. I was using powdered calcium which was all over the sand and apparently he thought it tasted good. So now I need to find another substrate pretty fast before he gets impacted. I also tried to pick him up just now (he was pawing at the glass and looking at me) and he freaked out. Didn't want me to touch him. He was jumping around the cage really weird like having twitches. Usually he's all about sitting with me.

I also switched from the sand to a non-adhesive shelf liner that can be found in any Walmart and can easily be cleaned. It's great!!

Like literally a shelf liner? I hadn't even thought of that. I definitely don't want to do anything material-ish because his back left foot only has one toe on it and it gets caught it things easily.

 

[peera]

I also tried to pick him up just now (he was pawing at the glass and looking at me) and he freaked out. Didn't want me to touch him. He was jumping around the cage really weird like having twitches. Usually he's all about sitting with me.

Like literally a shelf liner? I hadn't even thought of that. I definitely don't want to do anything material-ish because his back left foot only has one toe on it and it gets caught it things easily.

You may have just startled him. Did you reach in from directly above? It's always a good idea to come in from the side so he can see what you're doing. They interpret coming in from above as an attack and need some time to calm down after.

Non-adhesive shelf liner is great (you don't want the adhesive kind because then you can't get it out easily and once it starts to get grungy... eww.) as is textured tile. Personally, my money's on the tile... You never need to replace it, it's easily cleaned, and it trims their nails.

 

[lizardluvr]

Someone else on here said they use it. It's kinda spongy so it's easy on the toes (he he). And it comes in all sorts of colors!! Just make sure when you wash it, you use hot, hot water to kill any bacteria/salmonella.

 

[Romulous]

I think he's just more comfortable with his environment now and wants to explore. I had him on my hand yesterday and when he saw the light changes on the computer screen he jumped off and was all over the keyboard. My littler explorer

What I really want is some sort of stone/natural looking texture, but the shelf liner or tiles sounds like the perfect thing for now. Thanks for the suggestions!