Can YOU help 40 Grit!!???

[seymourduck]

Hello all! I'm new to the forum, but have a few questions. I'm not shy and can admit when I need help, this is one of those times. I've owned many pets over the years, mostly birds, dogs, & Iguanas. I've always wanted a bearded dragon, so when a friend was moving and needed to get rid of her two beardies "40 Grit" & "Prada" I jumped at the chance to own them. It's been about 10 months now and all has been going well until about a week ago when I started to work a LOT of hours & wasn't home to watch them as much as usual. It appears that Prada has been chewing on 40 Grit's feet/toes and it's apparent that she's becoming very dominant in their enclosure. She hogs food as well as the best/highest basking spot in the cage and his weight has started to drop. 40 Grit hasn't lost a foot, but one of his toes is 1/2 gone, and he has 4 others that are literally chomped through and barely hanging on. As well, two of his feet seem to be quite swollen, but he can still get around pretty good. I've now separated them and have 40 Grit in a different room from Prada's enclosure. I have soaked all his feet in Betadine, used neosporin on them, and am using newspaper as a substrate in his new enclosure instead of the sand I usually use. I have also purchased some Wax Worms to help put some weight back on. However, I'm curious about those toes. Should I leave them as is until they rip/fall off on their own, or remove them/have them removed? Is it something I can do myself? It appears that any bone in the toes has been bitten through and it's skin holding them on. Anything else I can/should do to help him out? Please help, I feel terrible as these are the coolest creatures EVER!! I can take/post pictures if needed.....

 

[Esther19]

Hi! Welcome to the forum. You did a wise thing removing the sand, and a wiser thing to separate them.
Because of the swelling, I would recommend that 40 Grit be seen by a reptile vet. There may be an infection. Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I agree with Esther, he needs a vet asap. Infections in bearded dragons easily become septic if untreated and it is a possibility that he could die. That has happened to other people on the forum, sadly. The vet will very likely need to do some blood work to figure out what the swelling is from, whether any of his values are high and what those elevated values indicate.

Keep them separated, so there won't be any more chewing and pain for him. Glad you removed the sand.

Please let us know what the vet said, so we all can learn and understand.

 

[seymourduck]

Thanks all, I will be doing this soon and keep you all up to date

 

[ShannyBeard]

Thanks all, I will be doing this soon and keep you all up to date

Thank you, it is always nice to hear back about the dragons.

 

[seymourduck]

Hi! Welcome to the forum. You did a wise thing removing the sand, and a wiser thing to separate them.
Because of the swelling, I would recommend that 40 Grit be seen by a reptile vet. There may be an infection. Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

So I just wanted to give a quick update....I've not had time to take pics as I was at work all day, but my better half took the day off of work to help tend to 40Grit for me. I had an empty 30 gallon aquarium that I decided to use as a makeshift home for now to keep him separated from Prada. One problem....no lid, no lights, & no money til Friday. Called a very well known exotics vet in the area and they said to keep doing what we're doing, that they could give him antibiotics, but they would be useless if his body temp & living area were not up to par. So we borrowed cash from the in-laws and purchased a lid, a 160W PowerSun Mercury Vapor UVB lamp, an Exo Terra 100W Professional Series Ceramic Heat Emitter, & a ReptiTemp Digital Infrared Thermometer. Any feedback on the above products? They were all recommended by the vet, but curious about people's experience with them...Vet said to monitor his feet closely and that as long as he's still eating well and there's no discoloration of the foot/leg, not to worry about the broken toes as they will fall off on their own.

So after setting him up in his new digs, cool side is at 81, hot side is 108, and he's eaten more today than Prada has let him eat in a long time! In three separate feedings he ate 20 Large crickets, 25 small crickets, & 40 Wax Worms, plus veggies. He would have eaten more but I ran out. Will have to get some more tomorrow....He seems to be moving around ok with the exception of his front left foot, it's obvious that the two broken toes are causing him pain. The swelling in the two feet that were attacked the worst doesn't look better, but also doesn't look worse either. I'm not quite sure if the skin is discoloring or not, as his feet are still stained blue from the colored Vita-sand we used in the shared enclosure. We are monitoring them closely & continuing with multiple Betadine soaks & Neosporin treatments daily. I will go take pics & post them shortly. Thanks again, and what do you think of the new set up???

 

[seymourduck]

So here is a photo of 40Grit's front left foot. Prada all but removed two of the toes when she bit him. Both are still (barely) attached by just a splinter of bone, which happens to be exposed & can be seen in this picture if you look close. His old enclosure had blue sand substrate, and I believe that along with multiple daily soaks in Betadine is causing the skin to look discolored. I am monitoring it closely in case it's actual discoloration. I've been liberally applying neosporin, hence the oozy look.

 

[seymourduck]

This is 40Grit's right rear foot. This is the one that has me the most worried, though the other one seems to be more painful. Although there is less damage to the toes themselves, the foot is very swollen. I can't tell if it's actually turning color or if it's just a combination of the blue colored sand substrate we had them in previously combined with the Betadine soaks we're doing. The oozy look is due to the neosporin that has been liberally applied to the area. Updates to come soon.

 

[twinmommy]

Wow those feet look bad. They look necrotic. When can you see the vet? Hopefully Tracie will see this soon and give you some advice.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh wow, I am sorry to hear that Prada was chewing on 40Grit's feet/toes! Oftentimes, the females begin to dominate over the males for some reason.
I am glad to hear you have separated them.
It is difficult to determine exactly how necrotic the area is due to the discoloration from the sand & betadine. How dark is the betadine when you soak his feet? It only needs to be a weak colored solution so it does not stain the skin. Continue to do the daily betadine soakings, along with using neosporin or other antibiotic ointment.
Are you using paper towels for substrate?
I hesitate to say wait to see if the areas will fall off, because bites have a horrible tendency to become infected thus traveling up the limbs to become a systemic infection. It would be better if you could get him to the vet for analysis to see exactly how much tissue is viable. Can you tell if he has any feeling left in those areas at all?
If he does, then some of the tissue could be spared possibly, but some of the tissue may or probably will dry out & fall off due to necrosis. The vet could try to debride some of the tissue also, to help & try to avoid complete amputation of the foot, etc.

Do you have a vet you could take him to?

Tracie

 

[seymourduck]

Hello,

Oh wow, I am sorry to hear that Prada was chewing on 40Grit's feet/toes! Oftentimes, the females begin to dominate over the males for some reason.
I am glad to hear you have separated them.
It is difficult to determine exactly how necrotic the area is due to the discoloration from the sand & betadine. How dark is the betadine when you soak his feet? It only needs to be a weak colored solution so it does not stain the skin. Continue to do the daily betadine soakings, along with using neosporin or other antibiotic ointment.
Are you using paper towels for substrate?
I hesitate to say wait to see if the areas will fall off, because bites have a horrible tendency to become infected thus traveling up the limbs to become a systemic infection. It would be better if you could get him to the vet for analysis to see exactly how much tissue is viable. Can you tell if he has any feeling left in those areas at all?
If he does, then some of the tissue could be spared possibly, but some of the tissue may or probably will dry out & fall off due to necrosis. The vet could try to debride some of the tissue also, to help & try to avoid complete amputation of the foot, etc.

Do you have a vet you could take him to?

Tracie

Just some more follow up on 40Grit...Our paychecks arrived at the office today & my boss being aware of the situation called the bank & OK'd the checks to be cashed today instead of friday as dated. Got 40 to the vet for an emergency visit just before they closed. They said it was a good thing we did as they think they can save his feet. The vet said he will lose 4-6 toes for sure, which is what I expected, and that there was a lot of live tissue on his feet, but also lots of swelling and a pretty good infection. It's pretty much gonna be a race between the two antibiotics they're going to use for treatment, and the infection, to see if we keep the feet or not. I will be back at the vet in the morning to pick him up as they are keeping him overnight tonight, so I'll have a better update with all the details sometime tomorrow. Thanks again everyone!