can beardies brumate in the summertime?

[KittyKitty1]

Our little guy has a great appetite, but chooses to crawl into his cave, and stay in the cool. I haven't been running his light during the day, due to his outdoor exposures. Am I forcing him into brumation because of this, or is this normal? :study:

 

[diamc]

Even though he is getting some "outdoor exposure", he still needs to have his tank temps set correctly during the day. Otherwise, it will force him to want to sleep and be lazy. Since he is eating good, he needs to have the appropriate temps to help him to digest properly or it is going to make him very sick. How long have you been keeping his lights off during the day? How much time is he spending outside?

Also, how old is he? This is NOT the time of year for them to be brumating so I would suggest that you give him a proper basking & cool side temp and if he doesn't improve, he should be checked by a vet and at the least, have a fecal checked for parasites.

Are you using a UVB in his tank? If so, what type & brand is it?

 

[KittyKitty1]

Thank you for the reply; I'll take all in serious consideration, and here's the answers to the questions asked:
It's been about a week without a lamp on, although he's on a heated pad...the kind made for terrariums.
He is outside in the sun twice a day for about 45 minutes each.
His age is unknown (the vet couldn't even figure it out) but there's been some guesses at about 4-6 years old. (He has a healthy tail, lots of good comments on that by vets and other beardie owners)
We do keep a cool side for him ~ a little home made cave that he loves to sleep in, and that's where he's preferring to be during this time. It's not cold ... just the cool side of his "residence".
The bulbs we use are, daytime= Zilla, 25 Watt, 120 Volt
night+ Exo Terra nite glo, 120V 60H7 50Watt
I hope this helps, and thank you again

 

[diamc]

Well, the heating pad isn't giving him his 100 or so basking temp so that's not good. I'm really confused as to why you didn't have his lights on during the day. Did/does he have a good temp while he is trying to digest his food? Only 45 minutes of heat & sunshine isn't enough to supply him heat for the whole day. What temps did he have in his tank when you had the lights on & what type of thermometer were you using? What size is his tank?

When you had his lights on during the day, you only used a 25 watt bulb? Or is it a Zilla UVB that you're referring to? He has a 50 watt nite glo on now during the night?

What feeders and greens are you giving him and how much does he eat during the wk? Are you still dusting with calcium & vitamins? If so, how often for each?

 

[KittyKitty1]

During the two years we've had him, he normally had the pad and the Zilla bulb both. Yes, it is a Zilla UVB.
His digesting temperature has been normal, and the thermometer (don't know the brand) is normally at a minimum of 80.
Tank is about 40 gallons, normally feed him mealworms, crickets when he's in the mood for them, and he's always balked a bit at the greens, but he does get them and loves grapes. When he's outdoors (he potties outdoors) he loves dandelion blossoms, clover leaves and a bit of grass.
About once a week we dust food w/calcium, and he's had vitamins rather irregularly.
I don't know why the bulb wasn't used more in the daytime...just not knowing what was going on, I guess...when he'd start to get warm, he'd head for his cave, and even now when we have his light on, he eventually returns to the cool.
Thanks again for your interest...we're already getting the UVB ready for it's normal use, and presently have the nite lite overhead (his little cave has a lid that can remain open).

 

[diamc]

So, the only time you were using any type of bulb that produced heat was at night? Adults actually need a minimum of 95 degrees and up to about 105 in order to be able to digest properly. Is the thermometer a digital strip or round gauge (dial) type thermometer? Is it the the glass temp that you were measuring?

Had you replaced the Zilla UVB in the 2 yrs you've had him or have you always used the same bulb? The Zilla UVB's are not a good bulb, they produce a large amount of UV index in the beginning and decline very rapidly as well as causing lots of health issues. They also don't prevent metabolic bone disease. An adult should have his food dusted with calcium 3 days a wk and with vitamins 1 day a wk.

How often have you been bathing him and/or offering oral fluids? Does he have any walking problems or any spasms or twitching of any kind?

Have you read any caresheets on this forum?

Moved from Behavior to this ER forum because there are a LOT of issues that need to be discussed and changed and it will get more attention here.

 

[KittyKitty1]

You've given me so much help/tips, and I'll apply them. I'll answer the previous questions, though:
He loves his baths, and I have no problem with giving him fluids (he was at a vet's about 8 mos ago, and we needed to give him oral meds for a tummy irritation and he took them well).
All the time we've had him, he's had what seems to be adequate heat, except for this past week. The thermometer is not on the glass, so I believe it is measuring properly...and it's around 90 now and should rise more in the day time tomorrow when the UVB is back on. The bulb is about a year old.
I will dust with calcium more often, as you suggest.
As far as his behavior, his walking is excellent (we have a family member with one who has the disorder that he can't walk much at all, and our little guy walks "high" on all fours, so we're grateful for that, and have seen what can develop when that condition sets in.) Ours has no twitching or visible signs of disorder.
If the return to normal heat doesn't help, I'll take him to a vet as you previously mentioned as a possibility for fecal sample. The nearest reptile vet is an hour away, and I'm hoping your information will be sufficient. He still eats with gusto and I'm going to give him an evening and morning bath for the next couple days... but we do make sure he doesn't dehydrate.
Again, thanks for the help, and I'm open to any other suggestions you have.
Sincerely, "KittyKitty's" mama and daddy :wink:

 

[munchkins9802]

Please take the heating pad out from under him. Beardies feel heat from above , not from below and they can burn their beardies.

You really didn't answer the question about thermometers. You need to know an EXACT temperature of the following spots: Basking SURFACE, Hot side, Cool side. What type of thermometer are you using? This is important as many thermometers out there can be 20 degrees or more off, and with the UVB and basking (hopefully you USE BOTH during the day), it may actually be hotter in there than you think.

Desert series UVB bulbs are useless--please replace with the Arcadia or Repti SUN 10.0 TUBE bulb.
Also, No matter when they are out for sun outside, they need UVB on them 10-12 hrs and darkness the rest of the evening.. In addition, UVB bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months or they will not get the adequate UVB needed to PROPERLy digest their food.

You said you and the vet couldn't tell age,etc. Do you have any pictures of him (plus his cage set up) that might be able to help us help you out more. How long is he from tip of nose to tip of tail (in inches)?. Mealworms really aren't all that great for him as well, feed phoenix/repti worms, silkworms, hornworms, crickets etc instead. Beautifuldragon.org has a nice color coded chart on what should be fed to beardies. Also, as an adult he should be getting more greens and veggies than protein (crickets).

Please consider everything you have been told or asked on here--we aren't out here to make you spend more money (like pet stores who sell and tell you INCORRECT info), we are here because we love our beardies.

 

[KittyKitty1]

Thanks, again, for the latest information, and I'm trying to take all this in consideration. He is just a tad over 19" long and I'd love to post a picture of him; I tried before, and can't seem to get the photo on. If someone can tell me how to do this, I'll post one. Lol, I have an archive of them, but will resist the temptation and just send one! 8)

He's doing very well right now, having applied most of the suggestions given previously. I know one thing from reading the replies, and checking .... I DID have it too warm for him and that's one reason he kept seeking the cold; then, being cold, he'd sleep. Now he's wide awake, and I believe in a suitable temperature.
All of your sage advice is deeply appreciated.

 

[ShannyBeard]

Are you using a digital probe thermometer with the probe sitting directly on his basking spot, directly under the hottest spot of the bulb? If not, it's beyond super important to do that for your dragon. You will need to leave the probe in place for at least 30 min, 45 min is even better. Often overlooked, the correct basking temp is essential for your dragon to process his food AND convert the calcium supplements properly so they are correctly absorbed into the blood stream. This happens in conjunction with proper UVB lighting.

The basking heat is a catalyst for the chemical changes that happen in the skin of the dragon's back which synthesizes the calcium and D3. All of his organs will use the calcium in the blood stream, but it needs to actually GET into the blood stream and that's where the heat and UVB light comes into play.

It's a complex and interesting chain of events and I'm afraid that when you deviate from the normal standard of care by removing the recommended heat and lighting, you interrupt his body's natural processes and he will not continue to thrive. He will slowly deteriorate over time. Reptiles tend to do that - they don't show an immediate negative reaction to things like this, but over time his organs and bones will be compromised.

Let us know about the thermometer If you need to post pics, go right ahead.

 

[diamc]

I'm glad I moved this thread to the ER forum last night as the OP has gotten more very useful info and facts. I ran out of time last night so I wasn't able to post more info. There is SO much to cover.

This will help you with posting pictures here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=152184

 

[KittyKitty1]

Thermometer is placed exactly where you specified, and happy to say he has returned to his "normal" self, and habits. You all have been terrific. Thank you.
Regarding the photo, I did go into Photobucket and successfully loaded a small album,(I like the site, thanks!) but still don't know how to get it into this site. I'm going to try to go back to where photos are downloaded in here, and see if something directs my pic where it's supposed to go!

 

[beardie parents]

Go into photobucket then roll your mouse arrow over one of the pics you want to post here, you will see a series of codes show up underneath the pics. Click on the 'img' code (it's the bottom one) then come to your 'post a reply' and right clic then highlight 'paste' and click on it. Your pic will show up on here like this one of our first two babies.

Then you can click on 'preview' below the post a reply area and when everything is the way you want it, click submit.

 

[KittyKitty1]

Everything went well with the photo, including posting on my facebook page; but I still haven't got it on this site. Boy, am I slow, or what?

 

[beardie parents]

It's easy when you get used to it. I was getting used to facebook then they changed it and I can't figure it out, I kind of gave up.