Can a baby beardie brumate or is he sick?

[Annieanna]

I was given a baby bearded dragon for Christmas so I'm a new owner. On Christmas Eve he was somewhat alert. Although he mostly stayed right under his basking lamp his eyes were open and he'd follow me around the room as I was cleaning up. He'd stare at me when I was close to him and when I'd pet him or hold him he seemed to enjoy it. I never saw him eat but assumed that he'd eaten just before I got him. A day or two passed and I still didn't see him eating so I held some kale to his mouth. He took one piece and then walked away. Now he stays in the same place all day and night unless I move him and his eyes are always closed unless I wake him. He seems totally uninterested in having me talk to him or pet him. I went back to the store where he was purchased and asked them what the problem could be and they told me that his vivarium was a bit on the cold side. They sold me a warmer bulb and said that he'd get his appetite back when he was warmer. The tank now stays at about 98 under his basking lamp but I don't see a difference in his behavior. This morning when I woke up he was holding his head up. I was encouraged by this but he hasn't moved since he got up on his branch a few minutes after that. The only difference now that its warmer inside, is that he no longer sits right under the heat. Now he's only about halfway up his branch in the middle of the tank. I put fresh kale and squash out and some tiny crickets but he won't eat either. He's exhibiting the signs of a beardie in brumation but I believe he is too young. Based on the size of other similar sized dragons, the reptile store employee told me that he's likely only 1 to 2 months old. What should I do? Any ideas?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry your baby is having some trouble! Let's review your tank setup to be sure that everything is good for him.
What type & brand of UVB light are you using, is it a compact/coil light, or a long fluorescent tube bulb type? The brand should be stamped on the base or one of the ends of the bulb. What type of basking light do you have, a colored type or a bright white light?
Do you know what the basking temperatures in the tank are? What type of thermometer are you using, a digital probe or temp gun?
Are you leaving the crickets in with him overnight or do you remove them?
You are right, he is way too young for brumation, normally that wont occur until they are at least 6-8 months but most of the time they wont brumate until they are over a year of age.
If you can, post some pictures of your tank setup for us to see. Here is a link to help with uploading & posting pictures:
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/#new

What type of "warmer" did the pet store sell you, is it an undertank heater or a ceramic heat emitter?

Tracie

 

[Annieanna]

I'm happy to say that the morning after I posted my questions, my beardie looked much better. He was up and around so I gave him a bath. It had been two days since the previous one. This time I saw him drink quite a bit of water. Afterwards he was much more alert. I think he was dehydrated. He stayed in the same place on his branch all day and night but held his head up and looked around throughout the day. I didn't see him eat anything but today I noticed that he has pooped. While I didn't see him moving around today he did change positions on the branch several times. I'm feeling encouraged although still a bit concerned that he won't eat crickets. I've read that some people withhold veggies until their dragons eat insects. How long should I do that for? This evening I noticed that he was not on his branch. I looked around and found him lying on the ground of the tank. First time I've seen this but what worried me is he didn't look like he was breathing. I stared at him for some time and I couldn't see his body moving and then all of a sudden a big gasp. Is this normal for a beardie? I wonder if he is just in a really deep sleep or is he breathing erratically?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It sounds like he is still having a bit of trouble. He may have been dehydrated, absolutely, but there may be something else going on. He is not breathing normally though?
How long does he bask for?
Are the crickets small enough for him that you are offering him?
Please review the type & brand of UVB lighting, the temperatures & the substrate you are using also just so we can be sure it is all correct.
Is he dark in color, or lighter/normal colored?
I would think that he should be starting to settle in with you now, since you got him right around Christmas. It can take them a couple of weeks to fully adjust to a new home. He shouldn't be in a deep sleep no, he is way too young for brumation right now.

Tracie

 

[Annieanna]

This morning the little guy did not look good at all. As I removed him from his tank to give him a bath he was almost completely limp and made no effort to jump into my hand as he had done in the past. I gave him a bath in warm water and he did not make any effort to drink. At some point he squirmed and I saw that he was moving erratically. He was jerking his neck to the right and couldn't hold himself up. I took him to the vet and unfortunately she said he was showing signs of neurological problems and that he most likely had the Atadenovirus. I was already familiar with the virus after reading about it on this website. On a couple of occasions today he did appear to go into the 'stargazing' position. She said that because he was so small (4.3 grams) there was nothing that could be done for him and said he probably wouldn't last another day. Drago passed away later this afternoon.

He's been in a 10 gallon tank with a substrate that the store recommended. It is purchased in a brick and then I guess it expands with water. Since it was a gift, I was not around for the initial set up. I have a Zilla mini heat and UVB fixture. It has a Zilla mini compact fluorescent bulb. The heat bulb was originally 25 watt which kept the temp between 87 - 90 degrees. The store told me that he was probably a bit too cold and recommended that I upgrade to a 50 watt. They said his appetite would improve when he was warmer. The new bulb kept the tank at about 98 degrees. As soon as I switched out the bulb, Drago began hanging out on the opposite (cooler) side of the tank. I have a branch that extends across the length of the tank in a diagonal position so that the wide base is on the ground and he could climb up and sit higher up, close to the basking lamp. With the cooler bulb he used to bask most of the day but as I mentioned, with the warmer bulb he never basked under the bulb. I think the 50 watt did a better job of keeping the ambient temperature warmer. There is a small habba hut and a small feeder for water. I used to place his veggies on the lid to small plastic container. The thermometer is a digital probe that is attached to the glass high up, right by the heat bulb. There is a warming pad at the bottom on one half of the tank. The entire set up is exactly what the store recommended so I'm not sure if I did anything wrong. He never seemed interested in eating crickets. It was as if he instinctually did not know that they were food. I would remove as many as I could when he refused to eat them so that they would not crawl all over him (because he would just sit there and let them). A couple crickets would usually hide in the crevices of the branch but as soon as I saw them roaming around I'd remove them. Please let me know if you think that I should improve on anything. I've enjoyed being the owner of a dragon even if for only a short time. I'd like to try again at some point. I appreciate your help.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am so sorry that Drago passed away today, how heart breaking. He was just a baby.
It is very likely that it was adeno virus. Sometimes the babies can make it but many times they are just not strong enough to get past it at that age.
As far as your setup, the primary thing that should be changed out would be the Zilla compact/coil light. Those lights are not very high quality & the UVB emissions are erratic. We recommend either the Reptisun 10 tube bulb or the Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb. They are much higher in quality & are safer, too.
Normally we recommend starting them out in no smaller than a 20 gallon tank really, to better be able to control the temperatures. A 10 gallon makes it difficult to maintain the temperatures.
Does the digital probe have a wire with a probe on it that you place under the basking spot/area to measure the temperatures? I would only use a warming pad overnight if nighttime heating is needed. During the day, they do much better with overhead heating with a nice bright white light for basking.
He may have just had trouble getting the crickets so he didn't really try for them. Neurological issues affect everything.
I am so sorry that you lost him. At least he wasn't alone.

Let us know if you decide to try again.

Tracie

 

[beardedlarry]

I'm very sorry to hear about your dragon. It's heartbreaking to lose these little guys.