Calling out all experienced beardie owners!

[Porschy]

Hey guys! Never would I EVER get a reptile or consider getting one.. but a couple days ago I asked to hold one at Petsmart for the first time... and well you can guess the little guy didn't leave my mind for the next two days and eventually went out and got him and his terrarium.

I'm on information overload since I've had him for only 5 days now and want all you experienced owners to just confirm if I'm doing everything right or let me know if I should do anything differently. I've learned a lot but I'm super OCD about giving him the perfect life and environment :study:

I have most things correct like lighting, and temperature and plus I'm sure he loves his new home (I can't stop spoiling him lol ... $$$ )

My main concern is his eating habits:
When I brought him home the first night he had well over 10-15 crickets... 2nd day.. wasn't too interested. Maybe had around 5-8. The day after has been the same thing. So I bought him some tiny meal worms to switch up the protein because I thought he got tired of the critters. He had about 10 small meal worms and 2 or 3 crickets the third day. The fourth day he had about 8 crickets. and today he had the same again. I'm trying to feed him twice a day, 10-15 minutes but after a couple he looses interest. He was highly interested in the meal worms which I'm not going to give to him anymore because of all the negatives I've read. and I also leave him fresh greens everyday even though he won't touch 95% of them. Do you guys think this is normal since he's still adapting to his new terrarium? He's been in the new setup as you can see in the picture below for 3-4 days now. I feel that's why his appetite isn't crazy high

I've also been trying to slowly tame him, and giving him some outside time in my room and my chest/hands/shoulder. Sometimes he tries to make a run for it and I freak out cause he's super fast lol. I also make sure to mist him 3x a day and he will sometimes sip the water directly from the spray bottle when I put it up to him. He's 5.8" and I'm going to guess he's about 2.5-3 months. Also I put calcium powder on his crickets and he seemed to be more interested in them since I started doing that 2 days ago. I'm getting a multivitamin in the mail in two days which I can also start using. I'm bathing him every other day to keep him hydrated as well.

Tomorrow I receive 100 silk worms which I will use as a staple food instead of crickets because they are so much more nutritious. I'm hoping this will interested him to eat more than he has!

If everything above checks off correctly... these are my questions:
1) are these eating habits normal for a beardy that is 5.8" 2.5-2 months and has been in his new terrarium only 5 days?
2) Should I be handling him as much as I have been? aka that's everyday for about 15-30 mins
3) Should I try to hand feed him? when I receive my silkworms tomorrow morning?
4) Today when I tried to take him out he would let me touch him but whenever I would try to pick him up he would run around the cage avoiding me lol. ( Goes back to question #2 )

Below are some extra pictures so you guys can see!

 

[CooperDragon]

It sounds like you're off to a good start. His eating habits sound pretty normal for a small dragon getting used to a new home. If he's alert and active I don't think you have much to worry about there. The crickets are OK as a staple if you dust them with calcium at each meal. You may want to try dubia roaches too if you can have them in your area (they're illegal in Florida and Canada). If he likes them you can start a colony up and it will help make feeding cheaper when he hits growth spurts. They're also much easier to take care of than crickets. The silks are a good feeder too but I'd include them as part of a balanced diet. Black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix Worms/Repti Worms/Calci Worms) are also a good option for feeding the little ones and they don't need to be dusted with calcium. Don't worry too much about the salads. Keep offering them so he's used to them being available as a food source but they will focus mainly on bugs until 12-18mo to get the protein they need to support fast growth. You can try hand feeding the worms if you want to. That's up to you. Be wary of hand nips. Their front teeth are sharp and can cause a bit of a pinch if they overshoot the food.

I wouldn't worry about misting him much either. As long as you gutload the bugs with fresh veges and maybe some water gel crystals that will get him most of what he needs. You can spray or use a dropper to put some extra water on his nose for him to lick up though if you want to.

Handling is OK if he reacts well to it. Otherwise you may need to ease into it a bit. Just use best judgement based on how he reacts each time you try. It's often easier to handle them in the evening when they're a little sleepier.

The setup looks good. Lots of places to climb around and hide. What are the temperatures in your tank? You'll want to shoot for 100-110 in the basking area with some 90s around that and a gradient down to 75-80 on the cool side of the tank. How far is he from the UVB light when he's basking? I recommend 6-8'' when using a T8 bulb (that's what it looks like you have based on the photo).

 

[Porschy]

It sounds like you're off to a good start. His eating habits sound pretty normal for a small dragon getting used to a new home. If he's alert and active I don't think you have much to worry about there. The crickets are OK as a staple if you dust them with calcium at each meal. You may want to try dubia roaches too if you can have them in your area (they're illegal in Florida and Canada). If he likes them you can start a colony up and it will help make feeding cheaper when he hits growth spurts. They're also much easier to take care of than crickets. The silks are a good feeder too but I'd include them as part of a balanced diet. Black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix Worms/Repti Worms/Calci Worms) are also a good option for feeding the little ones and they don't need to be dusted with calcium. Don't worry too much about the salads. Keep offering them so he's used to them being available as a food source but they will focus mainly on bugs until 12-18mo to get the protein they need to support fast growth. You can try hand feeding the worms if you want to. That's up to you. Be wary of hand nips. Their front teeth are sharp and can cause a bit of a pinch if they overshoot the food.

I wouldn't worry about misting him much either. As long as you gutload the bugs with fresh veges and maybe some water gel crystals that will get him most of what he needs. You can spray or use a dropper to put some extra water on his nose for him to lick up though if you want to.

Handling is OK if he reacts well to it. Otherwise you may need to ease into it a bit. Just use best judgement based on how he reacts each time you try. It's often easier to handle them in the evening when they're a little sleepier.

The setup looks good. Lots of places to climb around and hide. What are the temperatures in your tank? You'll want to shoot for 100-110 in the basking area with some 90s around that and a gradient down to 75-80 on the cool side of the tank. How far is he from the UVB light when he's basking? I recommend 6-8'' when using a T8 bulb (that's what it looks like you have based on the photo).

WOW that was awesome nutrition information! I really really appreciate it!

To your first paragraph, I will make sure to try to keep a balanced diet with the all the worms you listed! As for dubia roaches..I thought those things were too big for him? Wheres a good source to order them?

To your second paragraph.. the crickets I've been using are pretty big for his size.. I've been gut loading them like you said with some mustard green and carrots and those water gel things.

Regarding the handling.. I'm make sure to keep it down to maybe every other day until he can at least get used to his new place. I'm sure that's why his eating habits are weird. just want to tame him young is all

About the setup: Thanks so much! 40 gallon tank. I've been spending plenty on it and I'm finally done now :lol: on the right hes got the cave / leaves / hammock that we stitched up so he can climb and sleep... but hes prefered the tree under the basking area the past two days :lol: Yes I'm using a Reptisun 10.0 tube with a under the cabinet fixture to match the 17 watts of the repti tube. From the day I picked him up until about two days ago he was on the coil UVB's, until I found out they are bad for them I switched it to tube immediately (2 days ago). Temperature on the basking area ranges 100-110 ... on the floor level its around 90. and to the cooler side I'm getting the mid 80's.. and you're correct about T8!

Again thanks for the nutritional info. that my biggest worry. I don't know if you lost my main question above and that was regarding the dubia's!

 

[CooperDragon]

dubia roaches are all different sizes. If you start a colony you just sort them out by size and offer the small ones. They can be as small as a pencil eraser and grow to be as large as a chapstick tube (roughly). You'd keep the bigger ones around to breed. Same goes for the crickets (although they don't grow as big). Just keep in mind that you don't want to feed crickets or dubia that are larger than the space between his eyes. Young dragons can become impacted if they eat bugs that are too big for them. There are lots of places to order dubia online. I got mine from ABDragons. I put the order in a bin and just let them go to town. They eat scrap veges mostly. Sometimes some orange slices. You can house them in a rubbermaid tote or a tank. I have a leftover 20g long tank that I use for mine. They live in cardboard tubes stacked on one side and their food goes on the other. I have a under tank heat mat under the tank on the cardboard tube side. The tank sits on a bakers rack so it gets ventilation underneath and doesn't overheat. Other than keeping them fed they really don't take much to care for. They don't smell and they are quiet.

 

[Porschy]

dubia roaches are all different sizes. If you start a colony you just sort them out by size and offer the small ones. They can be as small as a pencil eraser and grow to be as large as a chapstick tube (roughly). You'd keep the bigger ones around to breed. Same goes for the crickets (although they don't grow as big). Just keep in mind that you don't want to feed crickets or dubia that are larger than the space between his eyes. Young dragons can become impacted if they eat bugs that are too big for them. There are lots of places to order dubia online. I got mine from ABDragons. I put the order in a bin and just let them go to town. They eat scrap veges mostly. Sometimes some orange slices. You can house them in a rubbermaid tote or a tank. I have a leftover 20g long tank that I use for mine. They live in cardboard tubes stacked on one side and their food goes on the other. I have a under tank heat mat under the tank on the cardboard tube side. The tank sits on a bakers rack so it gets ventilation underneath and doesn't overheat. Other than keeping them fed they really don't take much to care for. They don't smell and they are quiet.

You're the man. I'm setting an order for some extra small dubia roaches now! And thanks for the tips I'll setup a smaller colony the same then!

So whats the proper way of feeding these little guys? bowl? let them roam? hand fed?

Thanks for the brisk replies

 

[CooperDragon]

Kind of like crickets. Put a few in a cup that has some calcium dust (multivitamin one or two days per week instead of calcium) and shake them a bit until they're coated then drop them into the tank for him to chase down. I prefer to offer small batches and just repeat for 10 minutes or so. It's easier to keep track of them that way. I like to let them hunt the bugs down a bit. I think it helps keep their minds active and engaged a bit. If he likes the dubia you order, you'll want to start a colony soon. It can take a few months for the colony to start producing a new generation and become self sustaining. That will (hopefully) line up with when he hits some big growth spurts and starts eating you out of house and home. I started my colony with a "large mixed group" of maybe 600 or so but didn't feed them off. You may want to start with a bigger batch for it to get established more quickly (especially if you're feeding some off).

 

[premammalian]

Congratulations for your new small dragon. Did you see how your attitude towards reptiles can change with these small and cute animals? Actually they aren't much different than other animals.

Currently your dragon is adjusting, so try to approach him gently when handling. If you want to take him outside for sunlight, which you should do if temperatures are good, take him better now that he is small in a small open container and place him outside, half in sun half in shade, and stay there to supervise him. Then return him back. I would give him some treats whenever I disturbed him to realize I am not a threat. You can do the same. Perhapse he eats less insects because they are large. Most insects are fine, crickets and dubia roaches are of the most nutricious.

Dubia roaches are very good for a colony, as they don't smell, don't make any noise and don't climb smooth surfaces to escape. In fact if you don't disturb them you hardly hear them moving, they are like they don't exist. Their only downside is that they reproduce slowly at first. You must make sure that you won't feed from the colony when it is establishing. I try always to make a colony and end up feeding most of the insects.
Even if you are in Florida I think they sell discoid roaches, which are like a larger version of dubias. Only in Canada I think any tropical roach is illegal - now how a tropical species can establish in a cold environment, ask the lawmakers. You can also use red runners, they are another type of roach which all reptiles eat, but they are fast. I don't know if they are available though.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....what a beautiful and healthy looking leatherback. In his close up pic on the log he looks pretty stuffed....so the crickets were probably just a bit large for him and that would be why he didn't want so many, plus he is adjusting so that can be a factor. But he seems to be handling everything very well.

You've already been given lots of good advice so I don't have much to add. My only input would be to continue with the daily water on his snout for a drink [ once a day is fine ]....he will always stay hydrated that way and will know what it is when you give him water . Staying hydrated is very important for babies especially . As he gets older he may drink less but when he is thirsty he'll already recognize the sprayer/syringe as his water source. Some older dragons are over supplemented + overfed but under hydrated which can lead to health problems.

 

[Porschy]

Congratulations for your new small dragon. Did you see how your attitude towards reptiles can change with these small and cute animals? Actually they aren't much different than other animals.

Currently your dragon is adjusting, so try to approach him gently when handling. If you want to take him outside for sunlight, which you should do if temperatures are good, take him better now that he is small in a small open container and place him outside, half in sun half in shade, and stay there to supervise him. Then return him back. I would give him some treats whenever I disturbed him to realize I am not a threat. You can do the same. Perhapse he eats less insects because they are large. Most insects are fine, crickets and dubia roaches are of the most nutricious.

Dubia roaches are very good for a colony, as they don't smell, don't make any noise and don't climb smooth surfaces to escape. In fact if you don't disturb them you hardly hear them moving, they are like they don't exist. Their only downside is that they reproduce slowly at first. You must make sure that you won't feed from the colony when it is establishing. I try always to make a colony and end up feeding most of the insects.
Even if you are in Florida I think they sell discoid roaches, which are like a larger version of dubias. Only in Canada I think any tropical roach is illegal - now how a tropical species can establish in a cold environment, ask the lawmakers. You can also use red runners, they are another type of roach which all reptiles eat, but they are fast. I don't know if they are available though.

Thank you so much and yes attitude can do a complete 180! The first couple days he was cool with being picked up and now the past 4 days or so hes been settling in he never allows me to pick him up and just runs around the cage until I grab him. And yes I'm trying to be as gentle and as friendly as possible. It's 4 o clock today and hes only had 1 silk worm. I've left him with like 10-12 silk worms in a bowl. hopefully when I come home late tonight he will have eaten them!

I just took him out of the cage too and laid him on the sunny couch part and he tried to run around everywhere and leaped to other places lol. I then took him in the sink for a little bath and while he held onto my finger cause he was fighting to get out, he defecated ... normally he does in the cage though. I will order some dubia's soon maybe that might spike his appetite.

 

[Porschy]

Hi there....what a beautiful and healthy looking leatherback. In his close up pic on the log he looks pretty stuffed....so the crickets were probably just a bit large for him and that would be why he didn't want so many, plus he is adjusting so that can be a factor. But he seems to be handling everything very well.

You've already been given lots of good advice so I don't have much to add. My only input would be to continue with the daily water on his snout for a drink [ once a day is fine ]....he will always stay hydrated that way and will know what it is when you give him water . Staying hydrated is very important for babies especially . As he gets older he may drink less but when he is thirsty he'll already recognize the sprayer/syringe as his water source. Some older dragons are over supplemented + overfed but under hydrated which can lead to health problems.

Thank you so so much!
Yes that picture he was definitely stuffed with some critters! And thank you for those tips. I'm making sure he stays hydrated as much as possible! Right now he's sitting on the basking area, and he likes to sometimes shut one eye. This is normal? Like I said above today hes only had 1 silk worm, and I had to try getting him interested in it for like 10 minutes and actually placed the worm on the basking area.

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from General to Health

 

[AHBD]

So did he eat the silkworm ? How is his appetite today ?

 

[Porschy]

So did he eat the silkworm ? How is his appetite today ?

I just got home at 10:30pm and since around 5:30pm he only had one silk worm... I left him 12 in a bowl and I came home tonight and he didn't eat any! he was near his basking spot but hanging on the tree where he slept the night before.. normally hes knocked out around 8:45 but he walk backed to the the tree when I opened the cage. So I placed a silk worm and in front of him and he stared at it and finally ate it after 30 seconds.. and I gave him another and he did the same. After another 2 minutes he finally ate another one! so I think he had about 4-5 silk worms today. He's uninterested in them now and plus he shouldn't sleep with alot of food anyways so I stopped trying just now.

I'm guessing he must be used to 1 meal a day back at petsmart so maybe that's why his appetite isn't big enough for 2 meals a day yet?

 

[kingofnobbys]

I don't regard myself as an experienced beardie keeper (only had Puff and Rex for 3 years , got them at 6wks old and only about 8g each), and only been keeping lizards for about 5 years.

Your little pal looks very happy and healthy and his enclosure will be big enough for him for quite a while , he'll eventually need a 4' x 2' footprint tank.

Be sure to gutload the crickets for at least 24hr prior to using - I give my crickets fresh carrot, adult beardie lizard pellets (dry) and puk or bok choi greens , this way the beardie gets extra nutritious crickets that have been Calcium enhanced.

Calci-worms (we call them calci-gents here , a form of maggot) are recommended for little beardies , some say they about as good a feeder (Ca levels) as you can get , silkworms are pretty darned good too , and if you using mulberry leafs as the worm food - your beardie can eat the mulberry greens and mulberries too.
There are enzymes in silkworms that help metabolise Ca too.

Worms - superworms are a bit big for your guy I think, and mealworms . fine as treats .

Handfeeding insects in easy, just beware of the accidential fingertip nips are a risk and they can draw blood. They soon figure out the handfeeding lurk with a little practice. Is a good way of getting lizard to eat greens like puk or buk choi (an excellent green , high in Ca).
Refer to http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html as The Bible for stuff to give and not to give to your little pal.

The recipy I was given by the breeder when bought Puff and Rex is as follows :
1 whole puk or buk choi
1 c raw green peas
1 c raw green beans
1/2 raw sweet potato (skinned)
3 - 4 raw carrots (skinned)
grate the carrots and sweet potato
chop the choi and peas and beans in a food processor mixed with grated carrots and sweet potato

freeze in ice-cube maker trays , thaw a cube as required mixed with 1 tsp of juvenile beardie pellets and 1 tsp of vetafarm lizard pellets softened with water.

I'd offer about 10 - 15g of the above mix first thing each morning along with some washed coarsely shredded greens.

At his age , 2 feeds of live insects per day. about a dozen small - medium crickets per feed per day.

 

[Kashki]

Hey man, sounds like you're well onto the right track here (always love to see people doing their research!)
Straight into the eating habits, I think you've actually got a pretty chill dragon there. Normally the stress of the move is too much for the dragons to eat for the first day or two at least. My little fella has taken 2 weeks to get used to his enclosure! (that's right, he didn't eat a thing for 2 weeks)
So don't stress about eating habits too much. You'll get a feel for what's normal with him and only then can you know if he's been slowing down on eating and whether it might be something of a concern.

I think a few days of not handling would be a good idea early on (I doubt he's dehydrated so I'd skip the baths too). But after that I say handle him as much as he will allow. If you put your hand in and he wants to come up that's great, but otherwise just try again later in the day.

I don't think mini mealworms would really cause that much of an issue unless you let him overindulge and they're the primary feeder. Lucky for you I think dragons love silkworms a lot more than crickets in my experience.

Other than that I think your enclosure looks really cool and provided the temp and humidity levels are good, I imagine a few days will be all he needs to settle right in and get into regular feeding habits. (but again, don't stress if he doesn't unless it's paired with something like runny/smelly feces or lethargy)

Good luck and post some updates for us!